The Hiring Economy

Chris Hoyt: So I am—I have discovered I have an unintended superpower this morning. Or this afternoon, I guess—it’s early day. I like little snacks. This is not an endorsement, but things like beef jerky, little snack bags. My superpower? No matter how much is in the bag, the first thing I always pull out is that little stupid silicon packet. Try to eat it. Yep. Am I the only person who always pulls that out first and almost eats it? Is it just me?

Gerry Crispin: I usually look at what I pull out of the bag before I eat it, so… there’s that.

Chris Forman: The other thing, Chris—I’m just gonna put this out there—the fact that you eat so much of that stuff that you’ve recognized this pattern… What you’re pulling out isn’t farm-fresh food. Maybe some of these forever chemicals are starting to have an impact on you. I’m unsure. But I’m glad you’ve noticed. It doesn’t happen to me.

Chris Hoyt: You don’t think I’m gonna get a worm in my brain from chewing on those?

Chris Forman: No, I doubt that. I don’t think anything organic will survive in your body at this point. You’ll be perfectly preserved—like a Twinkie. Your kids will say, “Put the silicon packets in with Dad.”

Chris Hoyt: I love that. That means I won’t decay. Nothing will break down. I’ll be like one of those Happy Meals the dentist put in the corner of the office—it sat there for two years and looked exactly the same.

Gerry Crispin: More like a Twinkie that’s been sitting there forever.

Chris Hoyt: Jerry, did you just call me a Twinkie?

Gerry Crispin: Yeah. Those things last long.

Chris Hoyt: All right. On that note, I think we’re ready to get started.

Chris Forman: This is going completely the wrong direction right now.

Chris Hoyt: It’s all downhill from here. Here we go.

Announcer: CXR Channel—our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management. Listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging, and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt: All right everybody, welcome, welcome, welcome. We’re happy to have you back. Whether you’re chewing on your morning snack or a silicon packet, you’ve joined the Recruiting Community Podcast. We bring weekly insights and updates in the form of a conversation.

Today, we’ve got Chris Forman with us—founder and CEO of Appcast. We’re going to dive into the whirlwind of change in the hiring economy and explore how job market trends are reshaping talent acquisition as we zoom toward 2025.

Remote work? Joke? Too early? That’s all right.

I’m your host, Peter Parker. And with me is Tony Stark. Tony, how are you?

Gerry Crispin: I’m fine. Ironman, you know.

Chris Hoyt: And hopefully your superpower isn’t chewing on silicon packets.

Gerry Crispin: Not at all.

Chris Hoyt: For those of you joining us via YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitch—check us out at cxr.works/podcast for past and future episodes. If you’re on LinkedIn, there should be a chat window—say hello, ask questions of Chris, Jerry, or me. Or talk to each other—that’s good too.

Quick reminder—this is an ad-free labor of love. That said, we’ve got something we want to talk about: our latest research report, just published this week—“The Relationship Between Recruitment Marketing and Employer Branding.”

Gerry Crispin: Yeah, it was great. We had, what, 30 to 40 people?

Chris Hoyt: Yep. About 40 folks participated. We’re highlighting 19 or 20 as featured panelists. It’s a long list of cool folks: Carrie Newan, Liz Magini, James Ellis, Rachel Duran, Brian Adams, Allison Cruz—just really great contributors. You can download it free at cxr.works/research.

Jerry, was there a big “aha” for you?

Gerry Crispin: Seeing the evolution in how people think about recruitment marketing and how it’s differentiated from employer branding. It became really clear in the conversations. I love when peers fully engage and challenge each other—that’s where learning happens.

Chris Hoyt: Yeah, I enjoyed the debate about who owns what—it was fun. And again, the report is about 30 pages. Go check it out.

Now, let’s bring Chris Forman in. Let’s put him in the big kid chair. Chris, how are you?

Chris Forman: I’m great, guys. Happy Tuesday!

Chris Hoyt: Yeah, Tuesday it is. We just wrapped up a big week—our Leadership Meeting, where we gathered TA leaders and solution members for a couple of days at a resort in Tucson. Heartbeat drum dancing, string quartet, no phones or laptops—it was marvelous.

One of the coolest things? A guy you know well, Andrew Flowers, came out and spoke.

Chris Forman: Flower Power! Andrew’s great. Sounds like you had a musical theme going. Some of his talks are like Taylor Swift concerts—lighters, phones, the whole nine yards, all over labor economics. It’s a sight to see. How was he?

Chris Hoyt: Perfect. Absolutely perfect. You’re not wrong—this dude is a power nerd with an amazing fan base. Any time he speaks—especially on our quarterly report—people come up afterward like, “He’s so smart and makes it relatable.” He just wants to get the message across—not just spit out data.

Chris Forman: Yeah, the Flower Power is real. Smart people make things simple because they understand them deeply. Andrew can explain labor trends to consumers and argue policy with the Fed. He just got a big promotion—he now runs all data at Appcast. Everyone knows him from Recruitonomics, but he also leads our data scientists and analysts.

At Appcast, we say, “The report is the product.” People spend a lot on recruitment marketing and often don’t know if it’s working. Data helps. If you format it right and provide context and insight, people can make good decisions.

Chris Hoyt: I once heard a developer say, “Simple is complicated.” It stuck with me.

Chris Forman: Absolutely. Steve Jobs studied calligraphy and followed the Japanese principle of “Kanso”—power through simplicity. Great software is reductive. Great code is short, readable, and writable. It takes work to say a lot with a few words.

Chris Hoyt: It’s elegant. And Andrew is elegant. But today is about you.

You’re the founder and CEO of Appcast, a leader in programmatic job advertising. For those who don’t know you—give us the quick pitch. Who is Chris Forman?

Chris Forman: Husband of 31 years to Angela Marie Toms. We’ve got four kids. Live on a little dairy farm in Northern New Hampshire. Started out as a journalist, followed my wife to med school, became a forced entrepreneur. There were no companies here—so I built them.

For the past 25 years, I’ve been building and innovating recruitment technology—four different companies. Appcast is the last one.

Chris Hoyt: It’s been a journey. And cows. And a new chapter ahead?

Chris Forman: Yep. I’ll be out of a job in a few weeks. More time in the barn. Maybe some teaching. Maybe hat-making—Jerry, I’ll make you a hat. I keep being told I need a hobby.

Chris Hoyt: I think you’d be a phenomenal teacher. So back to the election—Andrew Flowers came to our leaders’ week and presented what the outcome might mean for recruiting strategies. He built three decks: one if Kamala Harris won, one if Trump won, one if we were still arguing about the results.

People just wanted to know—are we going to be okay?

Chris Forman: Yes, we’ll be fine. America has weathered a lot. When one party controls both houses and the executive, plus a right-leaning court, you’ll see faster change. We’re in an 18-month window where a lot will happen.

Hug your kids. Baseball will still be boring. It’s all good.

Chris Hoyt: Were there any big takeaways from Andrew’s presentation?

Chris Forman: Yeah. He laid out scenarios: Trump won with a huge mandate. That means faster change. Likely focus: deportations, tariffs, and tax cuts.

Tariffs can be imposed unilaterally—expect higher import costs, inflation, and shifts in demand for U.S. workers.

Deportations? Each million removed reduces GDP by 0.8%. That’s huge. Key impacted sectors: construction, agriculture, and food service.

Milk’s about to get expensive. On our dairy farm, we pay $25/hr legally—but that’s only feasible because I have another job. Most farms couldn’t survive it.

Axios recently reported 40% of U.S. drywall installers lack papers. That labor pullout will spike wages and reduce productivity.

Tax cuts? Economic gas—whether we can afford it is another matter.

Then there are wildcards—like RFK Jr. being tapped for HHS. Pharma stocks dropped 5% on that rumor. Healthcare is 20% of GDP.

The key for 2025? Be flexible. It could be a go-go year or a belt-tightening one. Be ready for both.

Chris Hoyt: Are there implications at the sector level?

Chris Forman: Construction, food service, and agriculture—expect wage hikes and hiring struggles. In other areas, it’s murky. Enterprises may hesitate, but SMBs—especially manufacturing—may thrive.

Russell 2000 soared after the election. Small caps are optimistic. Enterprises? Still cautious.

Chris Hoyt: We were seeing TA director roles reemerging pre-election. Hope was building. But with nominations coming in, things tightened up again. That optimism faded.

Chris Forman: Yeah. Enterprises were ready to un-pucker. The win gave clarity. The appointments brought fresh uncertainty. The pucker returned.

And I’m not being partisan—it’s just the reality of how business reacts to change.

But here’s why we’ll be okay…

Chris Hoyt: I’m ready. Hit me.

Chris Forman: (Holds up item) What’s this?

Chris Hoyt: Corn dog?

Chris Forman: Nope. Pancake wrapped around sausage. A breakfast corn dog. Innovation! Only in America. If we can invent a breakfast corn dog, we’ll be fine.

Chris Hoyt: I’m investing. Started with jerky and silicon packets—ended with pancake sausage on a stick.

Chris Forman: That’s right.

Chris Hoyt: Chris, you’re wrapping up this chapter. So here’s the big question: if you wrote a book about your career, what would the title be?

Chris Forman: “We Few, We Happy, Happy Few.”

Gerry Crispin: Henry V! St. Crispin’s Day!

Chris Forman: Yep. We read that speech every year at Appcast. Entrepreneurship is about believing in each other against the odds. The team matters more than anything.

Chris Hoyt: I love that. Chris, thank you again. It’s always a pleasure. We wish you all the best with your family and whatever’s next. Thanks so much for joining us.

Chris Forman: Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Chris Hoyt: We’ll see everyone next time—cxr.works/podcast, every week.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the CXR channel. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a review. Learn more at cxr.works and follow us on social media. Catch you next time.