The Value of a Strong Employer Brand (and a few other things…)

Chris Hoyt: All right. So I gotta ask you, James—we were chatting a little bit before, and it looks like I’m flying solo as a host. That’s a whole other story today because we had some technical challenges. Jerry had technical challenges. They were—

James Ellis: They were wrought. They were everywhere. We were riddled with them.

Chris Hoyt: Mm-hmm. But here’s the best part: Jerry’s so much better than me. He’s like, “Yeah, three times, I’m done. Guys, have a good show. I’ll be back later.” And I have to tell you, if I had thought to bail first, I would have.

James Ellis: You got real close. You threatened me and said, “If this doesn’t work, I’m done.” And sadly, we made it work. So I feel like I should apologize to you. I’m so sorry we got this to work.

Chris Hoyt: You know what? I think it’s you, James. Yeah. It’s your fault. You’re the reason we’re here today.

James Ellis: One way or another.

Chris Hoyt: Yeah, something like that. On so many levels. You’ve got some work on your plate. I was gonna start by asking you what’s the biggest thing on your desk, but the more I think about it, the more I think we should just jump in. We got stuff to talk about—like, is there ageism in our branding space or is it just evolution? Are we gonna talk about metrics and reporting today or does anybody give a damn?

James Ellis: It could be anything. All right, well, let’s do it. You ready?

Chris Hoyt: Yep. Let’s rock and roll. Here we go.

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Chris Hoyt: All right, everybody, I want to welcome you back—if you’re dialed in or on the treadmill or StairMaster or whatever floats your boat. Or maybe you’re on a boat—I don’t know. Welcome to the Recruiting Community Podcast. I am your host, Fox Mulder, and my guest today, Dana Skelly, will be on. We’ve got a lot to talk about.

Actually, I’m excited to bring in James. He’s coming back to the podcast. We’re looking forward to a fun conversation where we’re gonna talk about finding and reporting on the value in your employer brand—a bit of a mystery for some, and some people scratching their heads saying, “Why the hell should we even care?”

A couple of quick housekeeping items before I bring James in: we are streaming on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn—I think we’re on Twitch. We’re not on the ‘talk’ or the ‘gram’… did I say it cool enough? I don’t know. But you can check out past and future episodes at cxr.work/podcast. If you’re with us on LinkedIn, say hello. If you’ve got questions, throw ’em in—we’ll try to respond to the good ones!

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Now, I think it’s time to welcome our good friend James—or Dana. Dana, how are you?

James Ellis: Hey, how you doing? You’re a kick, man. I love that.

Chris Hoyt: Everybody, hold—let’s do it—right there. There you go.

James Ellis: Or you can get a—now look way over—okay, this is backwards. Oh, this is gonna get bad. We’re slap-happy to start with, and now you’re recording it. Okay, let’s go. It’s been a week.

Chris Hoyt: For a short week, it’s always the crazy ones.

James Ellis: Is this a short—oh, some of you folks took Monday off. I see. Well, those of us who own businesses don’t know what that means. There’s no such thing as a day off.

Chris Hoyt: All right, James. We were half-joking earlier about this observation that we’ve made at CareerXroads. There seems to be a disproportionate influx of younger talent in the marketing and branding space. There’s always new talent coming in, but it seems like there’s more of it in this space than in others.

I have a theory—I’m happy to place myself snugly under the wheel of the bus with it—but I’d like to hear your take.

James Ellis: Classically, employer branders were either recruiters with a flair for design or marketers who couldn’t take it anymore. But in the last three to five years, we’ve seen a stream of people saying, “Yeah, I did one or two years as a social media marketer,” and now they’re employer brand managers. Because businesses still think employer branding is about pretty pictures and platitudes. “Hey, you can use TikTok? Great. Let’s call that employer branding.”

That’s shifted the conversation about what good employer branding is and who should be doing it.

Chris Hoyt: I like that. I don’t necessarily disagree. I think we’re seeing a discovery in a niche of folks who went to school thinking they’d be marketing influencers—not the personal kind, but influencing people through content. I literally interviewed someone in our Community Up program who, when I asked what they wanted to do in TA, just said, “Influence people.” I asked, “To do what?” and she said, “Whatever I want them to do.”

James Ellis: This is the creator economy we live in. Influence isn’t inherently bad—it’s the channel. The question is, what do we want people to do? What do we want them to take away?

Chris Hoyt: Agreed. But I think there’s also no barrier to entry in recruiting. So when we look to hire marketing or branding folks, these younger groups are coming in, and I think we’ve seen some regretful hires—and some regretful acceptances. They get in and say, “This isn’t sexy work.”

James Ellis: And when you look at the job openings out there, they’re mostly specialist-level. If it says “manager,” it often means “content manager,” not “strategic brand lead.” These are $80K to $100K roles, not $200K strategy gigs.

Chris Hoyt: I’ve seen some as low as $70K or $80K. And you’re right—those are tactical roles. “Push the content. Make the video.” Not “build the strategy.”

[The conversation continues with detailed discussions on employer brand metrics, measuring ROI, differentiating brand strategy, and the future of employer branding. James and Chris explore how employer brand connects to business imperatives, how it saves or makes money, and how companies should define and report on that value.]

Chris Hoyt: James, always love your perspective. Great to have you on.

James Ellis: Thanks so much for having me on, Chris.

Chris Hoyt: We ask this of every guest—if you were going to write another book on this conversation, what would the title be?

James Ellis: Minimal Viable Employer Brand.

Chris Hoyt: I love it. That’s a wrap. And if you’re listening, don’t forget about that little QR code in the corner—support the CXR Foundation, get involved, join a committee. Big things ahead in the second half of the year.

Thanks again, James. Let’s take ’em out with a jam. You ready?

James Ellis: Let’s do it.

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