Reframing AI in Hiring

Chris Hoyt: So Charles, we were just talking, and now we’re live. You mentioned something about the weather—are we in danger of watching you just kind of fly off the screen? How bad is it where you are?

Charles Handler: Not too bad today. There’s a storm in the Gulf—hasn’t turned into a hurricane yet. It was aiming more for Texas but is tracking east now. Supposed to be a Category 2, which isn’t evacuation level, but I need to get the generator ready and pick up my kid early from school. Hopefully, it won’t be too bad. Since Katrina, we don’t do “hurricane parties” as much anymore, but if it’s mild and the power goes out, it’s a lot of wine drinking and sitting around because there’s not much else to do.

Chris Hoyt: Wait—I’ve never been to a hurricane party. I’ve had hurricanes at a party, but… are you saying Category 2 and below is still a party?

Charles Handler: That’s up to people’s judgment. These days, now that I have kids, we evacuate. Before, we’d stick around, but if you’re evacuating, there’s no party—just traffic.

Chris Hoyt: That’s hysterical. The turning point was having dependents.

Charles Handler: Exactly. These days I’ll sip on mezcal or scotch. No hurricanes for me.

Chris Hoyt: Nobody here would be mad about that either. Well, let’s get into it. Ready to squeeze in a little conversation before that storm hits?

Charles Handler: Absolutely.

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Chris Hoyt: Welcome to the Recruiting Community Podcast. We do weekly insights and updates with practitioners, experts, and influencers we know and respect.

Today, we’ve got Charles Handler, founder and president of Rocket-Hire. We’re exploring the evolving role of AI in hiring, how it’s changing for employers and candidates alike.

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And if you’re watching us live on LinkedIn, feel free to jump in the chat and say hello. Also, yes—we’re still looking for dad jokes. Throw them in the chat.

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Quick plug: check out our transparency and conflict of interest report at cxr.works/coi. We worked with over 30 TA leaders and Alex Murphy from JobSync to produce a 30-page downloadable resource. Great stuff in there if you’re working with vendors.

Okay, Charles, let’s bring you in. How are you?

Charles Handler: I’m doing great—thanks for having me. That intro music really pumped me up!

Chris Hoyt: Everyone says that. We keep meaning to change it, but it always gets us moving. Glad you like it.

So Charles, before we dive in, I’ve got to ask: did you bring a dad joke?

Charles Handler: I did. I usually make them up, but here’s a classic: How much does a pirate pay to get his ear pierced?

Chris Hoyt: How much?

Charles Handler: A buck-an-ear.

Chris Hoyt: That’s solid. Paul Cameron dropped one in the chat: “What did one snowman say to the other? Do you smell carrots?”

Charles Handler: That’s great! Very dad-jokey.

Chris Hoyt: I’ve got one too. Why did the chatbot show up late to work?

Charles Handler: Hmm… not sure.

Chris Hoyt: It had a hard drive.

Charles Handler: Nice. Very topical!

Chris Hoyt: All right, Charles. You’ve been running Rocket-Hire for 23 years. You’ve also been a contributing author at ERE since around 2000 or 2001. And lately, you’ve been advising at Bookend.ai. Want to give us the elevator pitch on who you are?

Charles Handler: Sure. I have a doctorate in industrial-organizational psychology. My whole career has been about helping enterprise companies implement assessments that are valid, legally compliant, and candidate-friendly.

I’ve built a large database of about 400 predictive hiring tools and companies—what I call “signal-based” hiring tools. I’ve also worked with many startups in HR tech, especially around innovation in assessment.

Lately, with the rise of generative AI, I’ve been studying how IO psychologists and TA teams are using these tools and where those roles intersect.

Chris Hoyt: And tell us about Bookend.ai. What’s the focus there?

Charles Handler: It’s a startup founded by some brilliant ex-Google folks. It’s an LLM platform that lets you work with open-source models securely. You can fine-tune them, do retrieval-augmented generation, and more.

One of our clients uses it to mine years of workforce data. The platform can pop up alerts like, “Hey, did you notice this trend?” It’s like a smart assistant that helps you extract more value from your internal data.

I also use it to build roleplay-based assessments—real-time simulations where candidates interact with a chatbot designed to elicit key behaviors or competencies.

Chris Hoyt: That’s fascinating. And I love how that supports the evolution toward assistant-based AI. Bill Gates said whoever nails that wins the AI race.

Charles Handler: Exactly. And it’s already happening. Many companies are building internal assistants using their own versions of ChatGPT.

I did a recent workshop on generative AI for assessments. A lot of people still think we’re just using the consumer version of ChatGPT. But that’s not viable for enterprise-grade tools. You need secure, tailored models.

Chris Hoyt: Yeah, we’re seeing companies fence in their LLMs and really start using them for productivity.

So in the hiring space, Charles, where have you seen the biggest advances lately with AI?

Charles Handler: There are two main paths. One is tools that source candidates or screen resumes using AI—some of these are black boxes with limited transparency. I don’t think those are ready for prime time.

Then there are traditional assessments, which haven’t evolved much. Somewhere in between are AI interviews that try to infer personality traits. But the big opportunity lies in simulations.

Simulations give candidates a realistic experience. They answer the question: “Why is the company asking me this?” They’re engaging, immersive, and aligned to job performance.

The challenge has always been cost and complexity. But with generative AI and tools like text-to-video, we’ll soon be able to scale realistic, job-relevant simulations affordably.

Chris Hoyt: So when you say “simulation,” is it like a next-gen robocall or something totally different?

Charles Handler: Totally different. It’s more like a structured roleplay. You interact with an AI bot that mimics a real-world job situation. It’s designed to draw out specific competencies.

We’ve been doing that for years with human scorers. Now we can train AI to do it—more consistency, less bias. Especially for jobs like call centers, it’s perfect.

Chris Hoyt: I remember those call center assessments—you’d listen to calls and respond to tricky customer issues. You’re saying AI can now replicate that?

Charles Handler: Absolutely. And better. You don’t need human raters or risk bias. Plus, call center simulations don’t require visuals, so it’s easier to deliver.

The key is good design. If you don’t train the AI right, it’ll fail. But with proper job analysis, you can deliver something really powerful.

Chris Hoyt: So let’s pivot to candidate experience. What are you seeing—or hoping to see—on the AI front?

Charles Handler: Well, candidate experience hasn’t changed much yet. Assessments are still long, repetitive, and impersonal.

We should give candidates feedback—at least something useful in return for their time. In Europe, that’s more common. Here, we shy away from it out of legal fear.

And branded, gamified simulations? They’re great, but expensive. Marriott did a fun one years ago where candidates could explore the kitchen and perform tasks. It wasn’t scored—just for engagement. We need more of that.

Chris Hoyt: That reminds me of Second Life. Telecom companies did virtual job fairs in there 20 years ago. We still haven’t nailed that yet.

Charles Handler: Yeah, Second Life was clunky. VR has promise, but also limitations—headset access, motion sickness, etc.

What excites me more are wearables like Meta’s new glasses. They’re not full AR yet, but the tech is coming. Eventually, we might see hiring experiences delivered through those.

Chris Hoyt: That’s wild. So looking ahead, what should TA leaders be watching in the next 3–5 years?

Charles Handler: First, understand we’re still in early adoption. Vendors are pushing ahead, but employers are cautious.

That’s fine—just focus on “safe innovation.” Follow the same validation standards we’ve always had: study the job, use job-relevant tools, monitor fairness.

As legislation evolves—like the EU AI Act—we’ll see more accountability. That’ll push more transparency in vendor tools.

Bottom line: If you know what the job is and build your tools around that, you’re on solid ground. Garbage in, garbage out. But good input leads to good outcomes.

Chris Hoyt: I love that. So Charles, if you were going to write a book on this topic, what would the title be?

Charles Handler: Hmm. Maybe something like “High-Stakes Hiring: Why Job Fit Matters”. Or “Build on Garbage, Your House Will Stink.”

Chris Hoyt: That last one’s the subtitle for sure. Who gets the first signed copy?

Charles Handler: You, Jerry, and maybe Josh Bersin. Gotta get it in the right hands!

Chris Hoyt: Fantastic. Charles, thank you so much. It’s always a joy chatting with you.

Charles Handler: Thanks for having me. And remember—it’s all about the candidate. Use the golden rule, and don’t forget what’s going on in their heads during the process.

Chris Hoyt: Amen to that. For anyone looking to connect with Charles, he’s on LinkedIn at drcharleshandler. If you can’t find him, reach out to us—we’ll introduce you.

Thanks, everyone. We’ll see you next time!

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