Career Crossroads: A New Series from the CXR Team

Chris Hoyt: Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to the CXR Recruiting Community podcast. That’s my Dax Shepard impersonation—it’s the best I’ve got. We’re excited to have everybody dialed in. If you’re watching us, that’s great—be careful on the treadmill! We’re happy to have you here.

If you want to hear full episodes and catch everything that’s going on, including all 400-some-odd interviews we’ve done with talent acquisition leaders over the last couple of years, you can check that out at cxr.works/podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and let Gerry and me know if there’s someone you think should be on the show—even if it’s yourself. We may not want you on the show, but we might. It could be fun.

I’m excited to chat with you, Gerry, because this is one of those special edition series you dreamt up a few months ago and said, “I’ve got an idea.” As is usual with many of your ideas, we ran with it. And this has proven to be a pretty fun adventure. You’ve got an interview here with a leader, but before we reveal who it is, can you set the stage for those who haven’t been listening to the series so far? What is this special edition series about? Why is it different?

Gerry Crispin: Yeah, absolutely. And for the record, most of my ideas go into a “tomorrow” file. But the real point of this series is that when CareerXroads first started 30 years ago, we wanted to look at two types of decisions: those made by employers and those made by candidates. We saw it as an intersection—both decisions are critical for the future.

Most of our work at CareerXroads has focused on what employers are doing in the decision-making process and the journey people go through. But now, we’re talking to talent acquisition leaders not about their jobs—but their careers. How they got into recruiting, the choices they’ve made, and a little bit of a peek at what’s ahead.

Chris Hoyt: I like it. So who is your guest today, Gerry?

Gerry Crispin: My guest is Joanna Clark—someone you’ve actually worked with.

Chris Hoyt: Yeah, we worked together at AT&T many years ago.

Gerry Crispin: She’s also been at Wells Fargo in a number of different roles. One of the most fascinating parts of our conversation is when she decided she wanted international experience. She told her boss she was going to get it—regardless. She ended up going to Eastern Europe to study with a delegation I was involved in. It was fun to see that play out.

Joanna is a unique and incredible leader. There’s a lot we can learn from her.

Chris Hoyt: Absolutely. It’s been a joy to stay connected with her both during and after our time working together. I hope everybody enjoys this chat you had with Joanna.

Announcer: Welcome to the Recruiting Community Podcast, the go-to channel for talent acquisition leaders and practitioners. This show is brought to you by CXR, a trusted community of thousands connecting the best minds in the industry to explore topics like attracting, engaging, and retaining top talent. Hosted by Chris Hoyt and Gerry Crispin. We are thrilled to have you join the conversation.

Gerry Crispin: So, welcome Joanna.

Joanna Clark: Thank you, Gerry. I’m super excited to be here with you this morning.

Gerry Crispin: It’s a pleasure to have you. When we first started CareerXroads, we adopted the name because we thought of it as the intersection where decisions are made by employers and candidates. Over the years, we’ve focused mostly on the employer side, but I’ve become obsessed with the decisions people make over a career—when to stay, when to go, and so on.

I’m excited to talk to you because over nearly 30 years, you’ve been at just two companies. I love that. We have a couple of members who’ve been with one company their whole careers, but most people move from A to B to C. There’s nothing wrong with either path, but I’m curious how your decision-making evolved over time.

So, let’s start with how you came to leave college and find your way to AT&T.

Joanna Clark: Well, technically it was Pacific Bell, but an AT&T company. I graduated from college with a very “appropriate” HR degree—criminal justice.

Gerry Crispin: Sounds perfect!

Joanna Clark: Right? I was waiting on some federal law enforcement applications, which is a long process, and I needed to eat. I was living in San Diego and found out about a job at Pacific Bell. They were doing a big DSL buildout and needed recruiters because they were hiring like crazy to put fiber in the ground.

I thought, “I can recruit. Whatever that means.” I got the job, went up to San Francisco for training, and started recruiting cutover technicians—which were essentially ditch diggers. No technical background needed, just a willingness to work.

I remember one of the first candidates I offered a job to—he got emotional. He talked about how this was going to change his life. He had a baby on the way and saw this as a real career opportunity. I hung up the phone and thought, “I just did that.” It was like a high I wanted to chase again.

Since then, I’ve had a hand in about 130,000 hires over my career. Knowing I played even a small part in that is incredibly fulfilling. I think this work is a privilege.

Gerry Crispin: That’s fabulous. It reinforces your decision to go into this unknown thing called recruiting. When you realize you’re making a difference in people’s lives, it really sticks with you.

Of course, there’s another side—delivering rejections. How did you handle that?

Joanna Clark: Early in my career, that was the hardest part. It felt like giving bad news. But midway through my career, I realized that how you treat people you decline is just as important. If they’re not the right fit for this job, that means their job is still out there waiting for them.

I always try to end those conversations with encouragement, and I do what I can to help them find the next opportunity—whether it’s with us or somewhere else. That’s recruiting Nirvana to me: finding the right job for the right person.

Gerry Crispin: Love that. And within both AT&T and Wells Fargo, you’ve had multiple roles. How did those transitions happen? Were they surprises or part of a plan?

Joanna Clark: Early on, I had leaders who encouraged me to look around and try different things. Then I realized—I have a say in this. I started making moves with intention.

I’ve worked in nearly every part of talent acquisition: high-volume, executive recruiting, early talent, employment branding, operations—you name it. I’ve been fortunate to be in large organizations that have all those facets. That breadth is what’s kept me growing.

Gerry Crispin: That’s amazing. When you left AT&T for Wells Fargo, what drove that decision?

Joanna Clark: Two things. AT&T was undergoing a location strategy, trying to move managers to Dallas. That didn’t work for me personally. Around the same time, Wells Fargo approached me with a compelling opportunity.

Wells was bringing in external talent for the first time in a while, so I was kind of a unicorn. It felt like the right culture, and I had the chance to help shape and grow their TA function. It was a great move.

Gerry Crispin: I remember when you made the intentional move to get international experience—you joined our trip to Europe. That was a strategic choice.

Joanna Clark: Absolutely. I started going on those Nanda trips with you and China Gorman to get exposure to global talent acquisition. I was hooked. Within a year, I was leading international hiring at Wells Fargo. I tell people all the time: if you know what you want to do, go do the work. Invest in yourself.

Gerry Crispin: That’s key—being accountable for your own learning. And you’re still young. What does your future look like?

Joanna Clark: I feel lucky to have had the career I’ve had—and yes, I earned it, but I’m still grateful. I’m in a place where I want to do work that excites me and helps others grow. Right now, I lead enterprise functions recruiting at Wells, supporting seven operating committee members.

I’ve done most everything in TA, so now it’s about doing interesting work. We’re in an acceleration phase at Wells, and that’s exciting. Also, this is a pivotal time for talent acquisition. The recruiter role is evolving rapidly. I want to help shape that future—to see recruiters become true talent consultants.

Gerry Crispin: Last question. Given how much has changed, what advice would you give someone just starting out in 2025?

Joanna Clark: Be curious. In the past, you could memorize all the policies and processes. That’s no longer possible—things change too fast. Curiosity is everything.

Also, be brave. Try new things. Even if the job isn’t perfect, you’ll still learn. And if you’re scared of AI—ask yourself why. AI won’t take your job, but someone curious about AI might.

Gerry Crispin: That’s a perfect note to end on. Thank you, Joanna.

Joanna Clark: Thank you, Jerry. I always love these conversations. Let’s do it again.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the Recruiting Community Podcast, where talent acquisition leaders connect, learn, and grow together. Be sure to visit cxr.works/podcast to explore past episodes, see what’s coming up next, and find out how you can join the conversation.

Whether you’ve got insights to share or want to be a guest on the show, we’d love to hear from you. To learn more about becoming a member of the CXR community, visit www.cxr.works. We’ll catch you in the next episode.