New Approaches to Diversity & Inclusion

Chris Hoyt: This is our first real live stream since the holidays. Rocky, Jerry and I were kind of wondering—did you buy yourself anything for Christmas? Did you treat yourself?

Rocki Howard: I did. I have a habit because I came from very humble beginnings, and there were times when there weren’t Christmas presents. So now, even though I have a loving family that spoils me ridiculously, I always buy myself a present.

There’s a company that makes keys with words on them. Last year, my word was “faith,” and I wore that red key all year long. This year’s word is “fearless,” and I’m putting them together. We’re gonna have a year of fearless faith.

Chris Hoyt: I love that! What’s the name of the company?

Rocki Howard: It’s called The Giving Keys. The other cool thing is you’re supposed to pass the key along when you see someone who needs something more than you. So I always keep an extra one in my pocket just in case.

Gerry Crispin: Sounds like a twist on the challenge coin, Chris.

Chris Hoyt: A little bit, yeah. All right, Rocky, you ready to talk about DEI?

Rocki Howard: I’m always ready to talk with you two.

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Announcer: Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management. Listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging, and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

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Chris Hoyt: I always manage to cut the music off too soon. Welcome to the Recruiting Community Podcast. We do these weekly. I’m Lucy, and this is my co-host, Ethel.

Gerry Crispin: Why am I Ethel? Why can’t I be Desi?

Chris Hoyt: Can you give us a little “Babalu”?

Gerry Crispin: No.

Chris Hoyt: Then that’s why you’re not Desi. We’re excited today. If you’re watching on LinkedIn, drop into the chat—say hello, ask questions. We’re also streaming on YouTube and Facebook.

As a reminder, this podcast is a labor of love—no sponsors. You’re here because we love the work you’re doing. Speaking of which, the CXR Directory is live. That started on a rooftop bar—true story. It’s a place where TA leaders can rate and review the vendors they use.

Gerry Crispin: It’s evolved over the last five years. Now you can connect with other TA leaders based on shared experiences with specific technologies.

Chris Hoyt: And if you’re a diversity-owned supplier—51% owned—we’re giving you a free profile in the directory. Reach out if that’s you.

Okay, let’s bring in our guest, Rocky Howard! How are you?

Rocki Howard: I feel like if you’re Lucy, I should be Ricky.

Chris Hoyt: Happy New Year! We decided you can say that until January 20th.

Rocki Howard: That works. That’s the day after my birthday—55 this year!

Chris Hoyt: You don’t look a day over 35. For those who may not know you, give us a quick intro.

Rocki Howard: I identify as she/her, Black, Christian, Gen X, wife, and mom. I believe in the power of intersectionality. I’m a wife and mom of four—my “baby adults” are all in their 20s and 30s. I spent 25 years in TA, working at companies like Adecco, Resource Solutions, Smart Recruiters, and The Mom Project.

What I loved most was creating workplaces where people could just show up and be themselves. That led to my pivot into DEI work. After doing it off the side of my desk for years, I decided to go all in. Now I’m the founder and Chief DEI Officer of Diverseology.

Chris Hoyt: Today, we’re talking about building inclusive workplaces. But also: Is DEI on the chopping block? That’s a panel topic at your upcoming event, and it’s something we’ve heard from our members. Can you tell us more about Diverseology?

Rocki Howard: Sure! Startups and SMBs can change workplace culture—but they often lack the resources to build sustainable DEI initiatives. That’s where Diverseology comes in. We offer a platform with content, coaching, and collaboration. We even have a DEI self-assessment we call Diverseology Insights.

Gerry Crispin: I loved the DEI maturity index you created at Smart Recruiters. It helped organizations self-assess and offered prescriptive next steps. How are you expanding on that now?

Rocki Howard: That index is one of my proudest accomplishments. Hundreds of global companies used it. Now, we’re evolving that into Diverseology Insights, a broader DEI assessment that spans the entire talent lifecycle—from recruiting to offboarding. It gives companies scores, identifies strengths and gaps, and shows exactly how to move forward.

Gerry Crispin: That’s so important. If we can see how other parts of the org walk the talk, it helps recruiters show candidates the real culture.

Rocki Howard: Absolutely. One of our clients, a global TA leader, told me, “I can’t recruit our way out of this.” The rest of the org has to do the work to retain the talent we bring in.

Chris Hoyt: Can you share an example of a company doing this well—creating an inclusive workspace that TA helps shape?

Rocki Howard: Textio is a great example. Jackie Clayton leads both TA and DEIB there, so the strategies are aligned. They publish an annual DEIB report that’s completely transparent—what’s working, what’s not. Candidates get to see that.

Their hiring process is thoughtful. It’s not rushed. It includes voices from across the org and from different perspectives. It shows candidates what the culture’s really like.

Gerry Crispin: That transparency is key. Candidates want to make informed decisions. They want to ask, “How many people who look like me have you hired? Where are they now?”

Rocki Howard: Yes! And it’s happening more and more. Candidates expect authenticity. One stat says 79% of candidates—regardless of how they identify—expect real, actionable DEI efforts. When you can’t answer those questions, it looks shady.

Chris Hoyt: When we announced this podcast, we did a quick poll among our members. We asked if they were experiencing DEI fatigue—feeling overwhelmed or weary from too many DEI efforts. Want to guess the results?

Rocki Howard: Ooh, I’ll say 4.27 out of 5—pretty high.

Gerry Crispin: I’d guess just under 4. But I think a lot of the fatigue stems from confusion around the recent SCOTUS decisions.

Chris Hoyt: Interesting guesses. Actually, 40% said they had no DEI fatigue at all—rated it a 1. Another 26% were neutral. Only 13% said they had extreme fatigue.

Rocki Howard: That’s encouraging! There’s a lot of negative rhetoric out there, but this shows that TA leaders are still committed.

Chris Hoyt: When we asked members if they wanted a DEI-specific in-person meeting, they all said no. But they did say they want DEI integrated into every meeting we host.

Rocki Howard: That’s exactly how it should be. DEI should be embedded in your culture, not a side project. When it’s treated like a one-off, it doesn’t stick.

Chris Hoyt: I had a personal wake-up call around that. I switched jobs and within 30 days saw more diversity and inclusion than I had in 10 years at my previous company. It was a total culture shift—from the board down.

Rocki Howard: It really does change how you show up every day. I had a team member once—white, under 40, male—who looked around the leadership table and said, “Oh wow, I’m the only white guy.” It was a moment that reshaped how he engaged.

Chris Hoyt: Can you tell us about your upcoming event—Inclusive by Design?

Rocki Howard: I’m so excited about this! It’s a free, two-day virtual conference on January 18-19. We’ve got incredible speakers: Torin Ellis, Jennifer Brown, Kim Snyder, Jackie Clayton, and many more.

You’ll hear from 24 panelists across eight sessions, three keynotes, and even a DEI hackathon. And yes—if you register, you’ll get access to the recordings.

Chris Hoyt: For those listening, the URL is diverseology.io/inclusivebydesign. It’s totally free, and if you care about real DEI strategy, you don’t want to miss it.

Rocki Howard: Thank you! This event is powered by community. It’s happening because incredible people said yes to being part of this.

Chris Hoyt: Normally, we ask guests what their book title would be. But since you’re writing one—what’s the subtitle? And who gets the first signed copy, besides us?

Rocki Howard: The subtitle is A DEI Strategy Playbook for Building High-Performing and Inclusive Cultures. The first signed copy goes to my husband, Raymond Howard—for always making space for me to do the work I love.

Chris Hoyt: I love that. Jerry, anything to add?

Gerry Crispin: Just that we all need to step up and be part of shaping where our profession goes from here.

Chris Hoyt: Agreed. Thank you, Rocky, for sharing your time and wisdom with us today. And thanks to everyone who tuned in. We’ll see you next week.

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