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New Approaches to Diversity & Inclusion
Chris Hoyt
Gotta say, this is our first. I think this is our first live stream. We had an accident on live stream of pre record last, last week, I think so it doesn’t really count, although that was a fun conversation. But this our first real live stream since the holidays. So Rocky, Gerry and I are kind of wondering, did you? Do you buy yourself anything for Christmas? Did you treat? Did you treat yourself?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 0:21
I did. And so I have a habit because I came from very humble backgrounds. And so there were times when I didn’t there weren’t Christmas presents. And once I got past that, even though I have a loving family that spoils me ridiculous. One of my personal things is I always buy myself a present. And so I love this, this this company, they build keys with words on them. And so last year, my word was faith. And I’m wearing this red key all year long. And so now we have another key that goes with that this year’s word is fearless. And I’m putting them together. We’re gonna have a year of fearless faith. So yes, that’s what I bought myself for Christmas this year.
Chris Hoyt 1:07
I love that.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 1:09
Yeah, great idea.
Chris Hoyt 1:11
You want to do the name of the company? You want to share it?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 1:14
Yes, I do. As soon as I looked in my, I buy so much for them. They’re just like on auto repeat. They’re a phenomenal company. It’s called The Giving Keys. The other kind of cool thing is I always buy extra keys because the concept of the company is when you see someone who needs something more than you do, you pass the key along. So I always when I’m traveling, keep an extra key in my pocket in case I need somebody that needs some inspiration. So you all please support The Giving Keys. Phenomenal company.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 1:46
Sounds like an adjunct to The Challenge Coin. Chris?
Chris Hoyt 1:51
Little bit. A little bit. Yeah. All right. Well, so we have fun conversation going on today. You ready? You ready to talk about it?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 1:57
I’m always ready to talk with you two.
Chris Hoyt 2:00
Here we go.
CXR Announcer 2:02
Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for talent acquisition and Talent Management. listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting engaging and retaining the best talent, we’re glad you’re here.
Chris Hoyt 2:32
Think we are about 380 some odd episodes in and I always manage to cut the dancing off right before I come back. So sorry if everybody misses it. Welcome, everybody. To another recruiting community podcast we do these weekly, we’re in 2024. This is our technically it’s our second live stream. It’s our first live stream with your I’m super excited to have a wonderful friend of ours, who has come back and has been doing a little bit of work since she was last here. First I want to bring in my co host. I’ll introduce myself. I am Lucy and this is the co host, Ethel.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 3:03
Why wasn’t I Desi?
Chris Hoyt 3:05
Oh, you could well in that you could be Desi, I guess. Yeah. You didn’t give? Can you give us a little Babalu?
Gerry Crispin, CXR 3:11
No.
Chris Hoyt 3:12
Well, that’s why you’re not Desi. That’s why you’re Gerry. So we’re excited. Here’s the thing, if you’re if you’re joining us live on the LinkedIn, there should be a chat window there. If you’d like to say ‘Hello’, if you’ve got questions for our guests today. Or if you’ve got questions for us, just drop them in there, we’ll go ahead and make sure that we get those answered, whether we are answering them live or when we come back. And of course, we address those are reassess those I will check those out. But we are streaming live as well, where there is no chat on the YouTube and the Facebook. So you can check those out. If you’re interested in past episodes, you want to see what’s coming up ahead, you can check that out at CXR dot works slash podcast, we try to keep that pretty easy. And as a reminder, this is a labor of love for Gerry and I. There are no sponsors for this show. If you’re on the show, it’s because we love you or we love the work you’re doing or in this case, a little bit of both. So we’re excited about that. And the last thing I’ll do is a reminder, Gerry a little bit of housekeeping. I do want to share the CXR directory is up and we’re having a lot of fun with that. And for those who don’t know, the CXR directory was born on a rooftop bar. That’s probably my favorite favorite line. But the idea there is that members had asked Gerry and I about what, what other technology where the solutions or vendors, folks were using. And we said, well, sure we can give that to you. And that over the course has been five years here maybe five or five years that has evolved into literally an arm of our community platform where if you are a member of ours, and you can add a rating to I think we’ve got upwards about 340 vendors in there. 6000 ratings that sit in the platform, you can connect now directly with others who have also dropped ratings on those. So if you’re shopping for say, Paradox and you’re on the fence and, you’re not quite sure you can go right into that Paradox profile now and you can see what other TD leaders and practitioners have given that rating and connect right to them in the platform. Pretty handy. Yeah, I don’t know. You want to add anything to the update? Gerry?
Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:16
No, I think it’s constantly evolving. And I think, you know, it’s, it’s helpful for people who want to engage other peers in you know, what are you getting out of this? And how are you, you know, getting various aspects of your solution solved so.
Chris Hoyt 5:34
Great, great. And the last thing I’ll add to that before we move on, because this is kind of a this is a an all hands this is a call. If you are a diversity owned supplier, if your diversity owned vendor or solution, let us know we’re gonna give you a full free profile. You can get in there we’re also making a designated listing for that so not diversity managed not not not minority manage not you’ve got a leader in a position somewhere that is a protected class. owned, you must be owned, if you want to. Yeah, that’s right. So we’re so we’re gonna we’re gonna make that offering out. So if you’re interested in that reach out to Gerry or myself. You can also check that out on CXR dot works slash directory. Like I said, we’d like to keep it pretty simple. Okay, with that Gerry ready to bring our guest in.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 6:16
Yeah, let’s do it.
Chris Hoyt 6:17
Alright, let’s let’s bring her on in from the green. How are you?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 6:21
I feel like I should be if you’re Lucy. I feel like I should be Ricky instead of Rocki today.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 6:32
I’ll get back to being Yeah, the other one.
Chris Hoyt 6:37
The other one one of the I’ll just be Fred.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 6:41
Fred, Fred would be best for me.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 6:48
Happy New Year. I know it’s the ninth someone said we could say Happy New Year until like the 20th.
Chris Hoyt 6:54
Absolutely pretty. Who randomly picks the 20th? I said let’s push it 21st. Yeah. A couple of days. I’ve Rocki for those
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 7:05
20th because it’s the day after my birthday. And after the birthday is like then the new year really starts. How about that?
Chris Hoyt 7:11
Oh, Happy Birthday. I didn’t know you were
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 7:14
milestone birthday this year. 55.
Chris Hoyt 7:17
55? Oh, no. I would have said 35.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 7:20
Yes, that’s what I was hoping you would say.
Chris Hoyt 7:24
Look, I’m gonna I’m gonna give you a chance to do a quick intro of yourself, Rocki, but you are the Chief Diversityologist and the Founder, obviously over at Diversiology.io. But we met you. I think way back at Smart Recruiters. You’ve been at the Mom Project. You’ve been Smart Recruiters, Resource Solutions, I think part of that and a number of other advisory and sort of board member roles in those in those various capacities. Can you and we’ve we’ve always loved engaging with you and talking about what’s going on in your world. Can you give us for those maybe who aren’t a little more familiar with you? Can you give us kind of that escalator pitch of who is Rocki Howard and why should we be listening to anything you have to say?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 8:03
Yeah, well, that’s still a question to be answered. I identify as she/her, Black, Christian, Gen X, wife, mom. I believe in the intersectionality and the importance of our intersectionality. The most important job I do is I’m a wife and mother of four, that we call them, the baby adults and the supposedly adults, they’re all in their 20s and 30s. I spent 25 years in the Talent Acquisition space working for companies like Adecco and Resource Solutions, really built a specialty in running large scale global recruiting operations. I loved every single moment of it. But what I enjoyed the most was creating workspaces where it just wasn’t so dang gone hard for people to show up and be themselves and started to really work with our clients in terms of their diversity strategies, how they could create more diverse cultures, found that passion, and then made a very deliberate pivot a purposeful pivot in my career to focus in the DEI space. I had been doing it as a leader. I’ve been doing it off the side of my desk, and then I wanted to do it. And so as you mentioned, spent the last couple of years in HR tech in the you know, DEI space, really learning some pretty critical lessons. And then I decided what the hell I’ll go do it myself. And so here we are.
Chris Hoyt 9:33
I love it. Well, so today, we sort of pitched this we were going to talk about ways to make the world of work more engaged, right to be more inclusive. And then we did a little bit of homework. We’re doing a we’re doing a panel, we’re gonna talk about an event you’ve got coming up, which we’re pretty excited about. We’re gonna moderate a panel at that event. And the topic is a DEI on the chopping block. And part of this was because of a few conversation Since that had come up within our membership on the state of the state of fatigue for DEI programs. So we’ve got we got a fun snippet of poll data there that we can share. But can you talk just a little bit about DiversiologyDEI and what goes on there? Before we jump into that?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 10:19
Yes, so spending time in the SMB space, and I hope some of our listeners will resonate with this, what I think is phenomenal with SMB is SMB has changed the world, we watch them change the cultures of organizations all around, right, so SMBs, and startups and scale ups gave us flexible work, they gave us new ways of how the offices looked, they gave us ping pong tables, and a little bit of what’s now known as the bro culture, but it was so much fun. And so we know that SMBs can literally change the world in terms of culture. The challenge when you think about having sustainable DEI initiatives, and SMBs is they don’t have the resources, they don’t have the expertise, the time, the money, the people. And so I wanted to serve them in doing what they do best. And so Diversiology is a platform that includes content, coaching, and collaboration to help the to help SMBs sustain their diversity initiatives. And it even includes an interesting little assessment in it. So we’ll have to talk about that as well.
Chris Hoyt 11:33
Let’s, let’s jump right through that. Right to that, because, uh, Gerry, you’ve got your fan of a little bit of sort of assessment, or index work that Rocki’s done before, let me just mute my mic and let you jump in. Because I know you were
Gerry Crispin, CXR 11:45
One of the things that really impressed me early on when we met, Rocki was the work that you did at Smart Recruiters on building a maturity index for DE and I thought that the that, you know, obviously, it needed to evolve. But the fact is, you were doing some really great work and trying to help people to self assess, where they would fit in the framework, not just for one aspect, like recruiting, but but in really all aspects of how you create a culture, that’s, that’s fully inclusive. You know, not only in the short run, but the long run. So I really would love you to chat about how you’ve taken that. And where are you? Where are you going with it now?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 12:26
Yeah, I will tell you, Jerry, and you and I have lots of conversations is that was evolving. And so you were one of those people that was sitting on my shoulder as I did this new work. And, and I will tell you that that maturity model that we did at Smart Recruiters is honestly one of the top three things that if you ask me what I’m most proud of I’ve done in my career, it sits up there, because we had hundreds of companies across the globe take that. And they were able to get this output. And it wasn’t just about to your point. So it gave subscript prescriptive action items. So it wasn’t just oh, here’s your level one, it was a level one. And then here’s how you get to two. And when you get done with these things, come back. Let’s do it again. And we’ll help you get to level three. And I think a lot of companies that do these assessments, the barrier to entry is too high. Like we can’t all go to Gardner and pay $100,000 Love you Gardner love the work you do. But we all can’t afford that, right? Also, the answers aren’t always appropriate to SMB. So now, that particular piece of work that we did was really focused heavily on the recruiting cycle, right. Now, we’re going to do one that’s called Diversiology insights. And we’re going to look at companies and help them assess their diversity, their inclusivity aptitude across the talent management lifecycle. So we’re going to start at recruiting and onboarding, we’re going to go all the way through performance management and offboarding. We’re going to help companies understand their, you know, business imperative score, their human imperative score, we’re gonna help them understand what best practices that they’re doing that are core, which ones are more advanced, we’re going to give them that maturity rating. And we’re going to give them that here’s what you can do to take the step up, and it’s all included in your Diversiology subscription.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 14:32
What makes me feel really good about that is because it loops back to my passion of recruiting, in the sense that if we, if we understand how in those other aspects, you are, in fact, walking the talk, then it informs me as a recruiter, in terms of my ability to show the pathway that we have here in this company that’s that’s very real.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 14:57
It’s important Gerry because It’s so funny, I was talking to a client of ours who I won’t put her on the spot and mentioned her, but she works for a global company. And she said, you know, the challenge with heading up TA is I can’t recruit our way out of the problem, I need the rest of the org to do what they need to do. So I’m recruiting great talent, but they’re not staying. And Gerry, I want you and the recruiters to know when they bring talent into the organization that that talent is going to stay because the organization understands how to make them feel like they belong, all the way through the lifecycle
Gerry Crispin, CXR 15:34
More that it’s Rocki, that it’s transparent enough to show these are the areas that we need to improve on. And, and so fundamentally, I’m not, I’m not telling you, it’s all perfect here. But that if you come we’re this is the journey we’re working on. And and you know, you’re going to be welcomed in being able to be part of that.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 15:55
For sure Gerry, you know,
Gerry Crispin, CXR 15:56
Make it better.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 15:57
It’s important. It’s like when I married my husband, right? He wouldn’t perfect. I knew, yes. I know. He’s the love of my life. Y’all forgot who we’re talking to. I’ve been married to the love of my life for 32 years. Right? Good point and making is that I, I married him consciously, right? I know, all the things that are wonderful about him. But I also knew those couple of things that I was like, Oh, I’m gonna have to live with that, right? And then I can make a conscious choice that that’s something I can live with. And we can work on together.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 16:30
I’m gonna ask my wife when she thought when she married me when
Chris Hoyt 16:34
I know that’s I don’t think that’s a good idea. Gerry, it’s probably better that none of us know what the little things are. I do want to
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 16:40
thought y’all please don’t.
Chris Hoyt 16:45
But so Rocki, you said I liked the phrase, you’re not going to be able to recruit your way out of this. Yeah, you got an organizational issue or cultural issue. And you’re saying, you’re not just gonna bring new people in, and then just get it fixed? So So let me ask you, and if you can be real specific to the TA side, which is most of our audience, right? I’d really love to hear if you’ve if at Diversiology you’ve seen any of these innovative strategies, right, that companies can sort of implement or in order to maybe create a more engaged or inclusive workspace? Or maybe where TA can have an impact on on the bigger business, right, as a as a business partner? Is there anything specific maybe you can share to that?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 17:24
Yeah, I’m doing some work right now with Textio. Right. And what I appreciate is, I’ll give a shout out to Jackie Clayton over there. So Jackie, not only was my neighbor Waco, you know, right, hey, I’m down there, I need to see you when the next time I’m down there and sear. And what I think Jackie does, that’s really interesting. And she has the ability to see it this way, because she runs DEIB, and Talent Acquisition. So I think that’s the first point is that even if you don’t have responsibility for those functions, you know, your DEIB function, and your TA function should be really closely looped together. And because Jackie owns both of those functions, she sees it through both of those lenses from a TA perspective. So she doesn’t think one without the other. Right. And I think what I appreciate about Jackie, is that one, Gerry, to your point earlier about being transparent with work, what works and doesn’t Textio puts out a wonderful report. If you all haven’t read it, check out the Textio DEIB report where they put it all out there. These are the things that we do really, really well. Here are the things that we really need to work on. So back to your point, Gerry, when you’re talking to candidates, the candidates have visibility to what works and what doesn’t, because not only does Jackie do the work, but Karen Schneider, as a CEO empowers that transparency of communication throughout the lifecycle. I think the last thing that they do exceptionally well is one, their leadership team is pretty diverse. And so they practice what they preach. But when you go through the process, it’s a pretty detailed process. Hey, Barb, I see you in the comments. The report is great. It’s a pretty detailed process. They you know, we’re always talking about getting people through the talent cycle quickly. And that’s always a metric but maybe quick isn’t what we need to do. Maybe we need to be a little bit more thoughtful and reflective. And we need to give people access to different people and different perspectives in the organization, cross functionally, cross culturally, and let people see the organization from different experience. So I think there’s a couple of things they do really well.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 20:01
I think it’s, for me, it’s it’s really informing the decision that a candidate makes not that the employer makes, the employer decides whether you can do this job, that’s their job. But the candidates got to decide, I will do the job. And that means that they have to really understand a lot of data and and the culture in a way that’s very different from a job description. So I want to be able to ask the hiring manager, how many people who look like me? Have you hired in the last five years? And where are they now? No one does that. But but they want to do and and that at that data has to be more accessible and more transparent to all of us, so that we can be more informed about why we’re coming there and our willingness to operate with the good and the bad?
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 20:53
Well, I find more candidates are asking and maybe not quite that direct Gerry. But if more and more candidates are asking, what okay, you say diversity is important to you be very specific about what that means. There’s a stat that says 79% of candidates, regardless of how they identify, expect companies to have a diversity initiative that’s authentic. Right. And so I think we are being asked the question, and when you can’t answer it, it looks a little shady.
Chris Hoyt 21:26
Yeah. So so that I think that goes nicely with some I think, Rocki, when we start talking about doing this, we put a quick podcast or excuse me, we put a quick poll together for this podcast, and we ask the question, have you experienced we asked it of our members. So you got about 130 companies in here, right 130 leaders heads up. We said, Have you experienced DEI fatigue. And we defined that as a feeling of weariness or overwhelmed due to like this continuous involvement in diversity and equity inclusive programs. And we were pretty specific to that right as a result of your organization. Do you just for fun? Do either of you want to take a guess? And we did a one to five. Right. So anybody want to take a guess of sort of where that where that fell out? And to be fair, maybe 50%? I think of our community leaders came back.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 22:19
I would say it’s probably pretty high. So I’m gonna say 4.27.
Chris Hoyt 22:28
Gerry, you want to take a swing at?
Gerry Crispin, CXR 22:30
I’d say just under four? I do think the the other issue that’s driving this force isn’t just the number of programs. It is. It is, you know, SCOTUS decision, for example, I think has been misread in a variety of ways. And so I’m constantly hearing, you know, that that the Supreme Court basically eliminated affirmative action, that kind of stuff. And as a result, I think there is there is a change in how people are perceiving all of that. And that leads to that kind of, you know, feeling.
Chris Hoyt 23:07
So, so the answers correlate nicely. This is why I loved your, your, your response to my question, Rocki, but because you didn’t come back with a program, you didn’t come back, you were talking about initiatives, and you’re talking about results. And this goes all the way back to when we were talking about intent, versus impact, like, you know, three, four years ago, right? We were saying this is how you make a difference, not how you make noise. 40% said, no fatigue at all. They were on the extreme. The number one, they put a one out of five, no fatigue at all. 26% said neutral, and only 13% of those that responded said extreme fatigue in DEI programs. Yeah. And we had a bunch of comments.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 23:49
Let me say something, Gerry, go ahead.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 23:53
I will I will make one anecdotal comment. And that is a woman I sat next to at a conference just before Christmas, basically quit her job as head of CHRO. Because her leader basically was tired of diversity related programs and said ‘Stop that’. And she said, ‘Fine, you stop it. I’m out of here.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 24:18
Yes, I am so excited to hear this because I also think it is a great data point to counterman some of the rhetoric we’re hearing in the market right now. There’s so much rhetoric going on in the market. However, Gerry, going back to what you said, and Barb, I don’t know if you want to grab it. I know that you’re on I just released this morning today’s diversity download newsletter. And the our hot topic today is that diversity leaders are burnt out because they’re on the other side of this. So I’m glad to hear that people aren’t and I don’t think people are over the programs. Because guess what we’re doing it for people.
Chris Hoyt 25:03
So so so I’ll add to this kind of interesting. So we have just locked in, I think all but one of our meetings next year where it’s going to be what the topic is going to be the leaders help us select these, right? We do these in person meetings, we’ll probably have 60=70 online meetings, but we do 5,6,7 In person where we all gather, we asked again, and we asked every year if they wanted a dedicated meeting for DEI, do they want a diversity focused meeting? unanimously? They said no, but there was one caveat that they want DE and I built into every meeting, every every impersonate, so not a dedicated, let’s talk about it today. The membership wanted it across the board every day.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 25:45
Well, and that’s why you’ve cultivated a great community, because it’s one of the things that we advocate for. And it’s one of the challenges when you set DEI aside, like over here, then it’s treated like something on the side, right, that isn’t important that isn’t integrated. And you do you when it’s done right, when it’s done effectively when it’s done in a sustainable manner, when it really has impact on our people. And when you can get the business benefits from it, the innovation, the retention, the strategic thought, the expansion of market, all of those things you can get. But you can only get them if you look at it as a business imperative, and you collect them and treated as part of the holistic business strategy. So I love and I’m not surprised that the CXR community said that,
Chris Hoyt 26:38
And I’ll give you a give you just kind of a an awakening for me from a DEI program versus a DEI based sort of culture experience for me, I left an organization I’d been at for over a decade. And in the first 30 days at my new organization, I had more exposure to diverse workforce, and were diverse working environments and diversity of thought in the first 30 days than I had had in almost 10 years. At the other employer, it was just an insane cultural difference. And you could see it all the way up to the board, you could literally visually see that that difference all the way up to the board, and then to live it in the space just makes all the difference. I think it changes everything about the work that you do every day.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 27:22
It does, it really does. And it it changes how you show up. I remember that happening at a team that I had a white young, under 40, white male, joined our leadership team. And his first day he sat at the table and he looked around and he said, literally, oh shit, like this has never happened to me before where I am the only white man sitting at the table. This is pretty incredible. Right? And it changed how he showed up a bit and how he interacted and how we felt. And I think that’s pretty cool. But that happens when we cultivate diverse communities. And and look, I do want to say this because I think it goes back to the TA people. One of the things that I am toying around with just put an article up about this tokenism thing, I think people a lot of times and just Jeffrey Moss, I see your comments, I can’t quite comment back, but I’m going to kind of bring it here. I think part of the rhetoric that we’re hearing is because people confuse tokenism with DEI right? This isn’t about, oh, I gave Rocki I’m gonna hire Rocki because I need a black female on the leadership team. This is about cultivating a perspective that says diversity is important. And it’s important enough that we are going to develop a pipeline of qualified individuals who are diverse, and who fit into the multiple dimensions of diversity. And so while people often laugh at me or question why I identify the way I do, it’s because I want people to know that I believe in the multiple dimensions of diversity, right? It’s not just about being black. It’s not just about race. It’s not just about any of those things, when there’s multiple dimensions of diversity. And so when we talk about DEI, it’s about making space for all of that. And we haven’t gotten the fundamentals quite right. But I think part of this kind of struggle and this exhaustion is because people confuse tokenism with DEI and they are absolutely not the same.
Chris Hoyt 29:43
Yeah. 100%. Right. Talk to us a little bit about inclusive by design, because I think that’s going to be that is going to be a message that resonates I think throughout the day, can you share a little bit about what that is and what folks should know.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 29:57
Ah, so wealth is what you gotta know. It’s so I’m so excited about this virtual conference, it is free, you will get the best names in the business. If you want to know it’s time to redesign. DEI we understand that there’s too much friction. There’s too much rhetoric. But how do we redesign it? And how do we redesign it for impact. And so our very own Chris Hoyt is actually facilitating our very first panel of the day. I think you’ve got John Graham, you’ve got Ruth Rathblott, you’ve got capture then, right after a keynote from the King himself Torin Ellis. And that’s just the first hour of the day. You got 24 Power sessions. Eight incredible moderators, three stellar keynotes, including Kieran Schneider, the CEO of Textio, Jennifer Brown, the author of of you know How to be an Inclusive Leader, and Beyond Diversity is going to close us up and be our keynote, Jackie Clayton and I are gonna do a diversity, DEI hackathon, you want to get involved and talk about how we redesign this, let’s redesign it together. Two days completely free, you could not pay for the talent that we have on these two days, we’re starting on the 18th. We’re going through the 19. This is how we’re celebrating 55. This is what we’re doing. I’m so excited. So you all you got to go register now. And just because I know people will ask, if you register, yes, you will get access to the recordings, we understand that not everybody can take two days and sit there so you absolutely so please register, ASAP.
Chris Hoyt 31:47
Alright, so those are Gerry’s gonna be there for sure those who are watching and can’t see it on the screen, we’ve got the URL up, it’s super easy. It’s Diversiology.io slash inclusive by design. And you can do that again, Rocki, I love that it’s free. You have some you do have some serious headliners over the course of those two days and some really fun personalities. So I got to say if you if you’ve got the bandwidth, to consume this thing, you ought to do it, you’re not sick if you don’t dial in for it, or at least access the recording. So you got to register.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 32:19
For sure, for sure. And I want to say this too, because I think it shows the power of the community we cultivate, because we do have incredible headliners. And that has nothing to do with me as a conference organizer, that has to do with incredible people who want to get the word out who want to have this conversation, and who are in community together. So when we call we answer for each other. And so I appreciate everyone that showing up. And I appreciate the support that I get from this community all the time, I appreciate
Chris Hoyt 32:53
I don’t disagree with you very often, I’m gonna disagree with you a little bit on this, I think you are a force of inspiration and a force of pushing change. And I think it’s a little bit more about who’s driving, who’s piloting who’s pushing, then you give it credit for it. So I think I think you deserve a little bit of a hat tip there that you steal from yourself.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 33:12
You know, at the same time, I really would like to emphasize the fact that it’s the collective voice that we we really need to have to step up in our profession and our industries so that we we take more responsibility, driving where we’re going to go rather than leave late, you know, let it happen by you know, fragmentation or just people outside of our space who make the decisions.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 33:41
Well, it’s and that’s why we were delivered about the title inclusion happens by design, and we need to design it together. And so I’m again I’m so very excited. I can’t wait for this. Lindsay Haynes is is bias we’ll talk about her bias thanks, Lindsay. I love you.
Chris Hoyt 34:04
I love it. Now you know, Rocki normally, when we wrap these up, we will ask our guests to to title a book for us if they were going to write a book today about the state of things, they’re going to add a title to it, you get it’s a cheat for you today. It’s 100% of cheat for you today. So I’m gonna I’m gonna twist the question of a little bit the state of things and I want you to share a little bit about the book if you’d like what you’re writing, but give us the subtitle that you would add for that and who gets the first signed copy present company excluded. So what’s the subtitle of that book and who’s gonna get who’s gonna give the first time copy to
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 34:43
The subtitle is a DEI strategy playbook for building high performing and inclusive cultures. The first sign copy goes to Mr. Raymond Howard, for making space for me to do All of this stuff that I do, he is always my first and he will always get my first. So the first copy goes him
Chris Hoyt 35:08
I love that I love that. Gerry, anything you want to add before before we’re out of here?
Gerry Crispin, CXR 35:12
Nah, it’s good. Gotta know when to stop,
Chris Hoyt 35:18
man have enough that we can wrap it up and that’s fine. All right. As a reminder, if you missed part of this, you can grab it CXR dot works slash podcast, We’d encourage you to do that. You can also see the shows we’ve got coming up and you can see the shows that we’ve done before. 300 some odd, don’t go all the way to the beginning. They’re a little embarrassing. We’re getting a little better every day. Check those out. And I think with all of that, why don’t why don’t both of you say goodbye, everybody.
Gerry Crispin, CXR 35:40
Bye, everybody. All right,
Chris Hoyt 35:42
We’ll see everybody.
Rocki Howard, Diversiology 35:44
Bye everybody.
Chris Hoyt 35:44
Thanks, Rocki.
CXR Announcer 35:48
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