S5 E4 | CXR Podcast: Lauryn Sargent shares flexible workforce insights

Welcome to the CXR channel. Our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:21
I’m Chris Hoyt, the president of CareerXroads I am your host for today’s CXR Podcast. I’m super excited to be joined by Lauryn Sargent with Stories Inc. She’s a partner there and Lauryn you’re in I think we were just talking about this in the green room. You’re in DC, right?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 0:35
Yes.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:36
Yeah. Which has where we say a similar weather I’m in Austin and a similar weather to Austin or it’s it’s close

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 0:44
I would love I would love to say that but today it’s not 48 like it is in Austin but today was is surprisingly nice out after days of like frigid Don’t you dare go outside without like being totally loaded up today is kind of like a maybe just your jacket.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:01
So I pretty good I actually been trip coming up to go see the northern lights. And I’m very excited. So a couple weeks we’ve planned at this time of year because of the the amount of darkness versus you know daylight to be able to see them so it’s a bucket list item but it is supposed to be minus 20 ferinheight and I feel like I’m I’m in fear of my soul freezing.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:29
You’ll be able to see it. You’ll Breathe it out and see it frozen.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:33
Yeah, do you? Do you put it in your jacket?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:36
Your soul? I don’t know when it freezes. Where do you put your soul? You know, and like I like to think I really thought this in Greenland too. I’m from Cleveland. So I love to think like oh, cold weather. No big deal. But when you said negative 20 degrees, my whole soul just froze.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:51
It’s like do you want to breathe here slowly?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:54
Yeah, like negative 20 Man That is crazy. But now the lights the lights and bucket list plus story experience. Like that’s sounds like an experience. Sounds like an adventure.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:08
We’ll see I’ve never been it’s we’re going to Fairbanks to do it. So we’ll see. We’ll see how it goes. There might be some dog mushing that could be fun too.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 2:14
Oh, very cool.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:15
Lauryn, for those who don’t know you obviously I said where you’re working but why don’t you give us what I like to call the escalator pitch of who is Lauryn Sargent tell us a little bit about yourself how long you’ve been in the space and kind of what you do and then hell you know what, give us some Stories Inc schpel What the hell is Stories inc?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 2:33
Okay, I can do that. I’m I’m Lauryn Sargent I’m the co founder and partner at Stories Inc. And prior to Stories Inc. I was in recruiting for about eight years and I used to say like everything recruiting so contingency and then executive search and then corporate before quitting my job to found co found Stories Inc. with my partner Scott. Stories Inc is a player branding and marketing content creation company. And we our whole premises that employee stories are the thing. That’s the thing that really gives clarity to candidates. Yeah, what else about me? I got I’ve got two kids. I’m in DC. I’m a little weird. quirky. Let’s see what else about me? Yeah, I’m probably gonna die in DC. I love it. I’m from Ohio but I love it here. Probably even in my house.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:26
In that house, you love that house so much in that city, you’re going nowhere.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 3:30
Creature of habit. I mean, over COVID That’s the kind of thing where like, you know, you start to notice things about your house. And so I’ve done little things I’ve made it really my own even I’ve lived here 10 years, the last like six months has really been clutch because it’s like, exactly everything that I see is like something that I’ve even replacing the doorknobs you know, just things that you do in COVID, where you’re like, I can’t deal with this anymore. I’ve been there too long. I gotta switch it up. So

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:54
So okay, so it’s a good thing. You love your house so much? Because you’ve been in it quite a bit.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 3:59
Yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:59
For the last two years,

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:00
That could have gone the opposite way, you know, could have moved can’t stand it anymore like that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:04
Well, that a lot of people did that. I moved twice during COVID.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:07
Did you really? Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh, yeah, that’s a constant change, and look good for you. You did the opposite of what I did. So that’s how did that work out?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:18
Well, you know, getting ready to move again,

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:20
Really. Oh my god.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:23
So but that brings, that kind of brings us to our topic of we’re both in jobs where we have a very flexible opportunity, like a very flexible calendar, right the opportunity to sort of work when we want a little bit, we can move that around a little bit. So that’s why we invite you on the show to talk a little bit about what you guys have done from a flexibility standpoint. So so why don’t you kick us off there? Do you have an opinion of what a flexible workforce should look like?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:49
Yeah, I think you know, it just so many factors depend on who works for your company and what you view the ultimate experience and productivity and all those great things. But for us, I mean, we, prior to COVID, we experimented with a four day work week, in during the summers only. And it worked out really well. But I have to tell you, I think, even though I’ve been reading about progressive companies and working with progressive companies, and what’s the best in culture and those types of practices for a long time, I’m still pretty old school. So even when we had, you know, experiment, and it worked out great in the summer, I didn’t necessarily have the thought of let’s go make this happen full time. Until, you know, just before COVID, probably three months before COVID, senior leader at Stories said, why don’t we do this the whole year round? It’s like, oh, I guess we could should we that seems crazy, even though it’s not crazy for a lot of companies. But for me, it seemed like a really nutty thing to do. But we haven’t looked back since then. And then

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:53
I gotta ask, though, I gotta ask. So what’s a four day workweek look like? Does that mean now instead of working nine hour days, or 10 hour, days, five days a week, you’re working 15 hour days, four days a week? Like what is what? Are you losing productivity? What happens? What are the hours go?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 6:09
That’s a great question. And really, for our company, I’m getting a little bit specific, we’re almost split into where half of us I’m on the sales and marketing team working with progressive prospective customers and the other half are actually doing the project doing the work and working with clients. So that’s also two different kind of job categories. And then applying a four day work week on that, like, what is your out? What is your day look like? So I’d say from the sales and marketing side, it’s definitely a four day work week. But if someone needs to meet with us on a Friday, you know, we could probably make that work. But on the client side, we’ve had really, you know, no problem transition to four days that are about, you know, eight or nine hour days, and totally off on Fridays. So yeah, it’s actually like an eight or nine hour day for for four days a week. And then the fifth day really is we closed the office. So not only there, no internal meetings, we actually close the office down, like it’s with the exception of putting something in Slack. Or we have, you know, we have like a channel in Slack. And we have a daily snapshots, you know, where we love on Fridays to show all the things that we’re doing on that Friday, we don’t talk to each other unless it’s critical.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:21
You really do shut down really? For the most part, right? Like 80-90%. Shut down.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 7:26
Yeah. And I’ve got to tell you, the other thing is, you know, there’s that thought of, if you have a four day workweek, is it added flexibility to say you choose like, for your team? Oh, you choose? Do you don’t want to work Mondays? And that was a thought we had. But because we had experimented with the summer, I already knew that. It’s actually not a full day off when you feel like people are waiting on you. So on a Friday, if you’re the only one not working? You you feel like you are there still that like that thing in your head that’s like, oh, is someone waiting on me? Are people talking about work? And I should be part of this discussion, but on a bother me. So the best option was just a close, pick the day close it down? You know?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:09
That’s a really good point, Lauryn, because you hear a lot of people talking about flexible work, and letting people kind of decide their own schedules. But is could that just devil’s advocate, but could that be why a lot of organizations kind of scoff at that, like, it doesn’t really take off? It doesn’t work because of the conflicting I want my Mondays off, you want your Wednesday, somebody else thinks Friday? I mean, that’s some scheduling. That’s some scheduling nightmare material there.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 8:35
Yeah. And also just mentally, like, you feel like you’re not really taking the day off, you’re still thinking about work. Because if work is still happening at your company, and you’re like, not there, you’re missing it kind of like, you know, it’s been tough sometimes for me in recent years to take a vacation because you feel like oh, but there’s that one thing. But wait, I just need to make sure this comes through. You know, so it really is helpful to shut it down. Because then even mentally, you’re still connected.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:00
Well, and look, I’m a fan of Slack. And I think Slack started and I think their mantra if I remember right was gonna like we’re going to be the death of email. Yeah, but I have to tell you, like everybody that I talked to, especially those who are like, off, right, or we’re out or out and about, Slack seems to be the death of downtime.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 9:17
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree. I mean, I know. And I was, I was just because I knew I wanted to be, you know, to talk even though I’m living the four day work day life, you know, and I’m a leader that’s made that happen for our company. I still wanted to make sure I had cuz I knew I was gonna be talking with you. But I wanted to make sure I had done some research. And I saw this like, really interesting thing that the 1920s an economist, predicted that by 2030, we’d all be working 15 hour work weeks. And that was really interesting, because, you know, they didn’t know all the things but like, he didn’t realize it’s the opposite. He was thinking all this like innovation, like is going to mean that we’re doing less physical labor, which is probably true, but it’s actually You know, no, it’s always on, you know, the the technological advances are there because it’s on your phones in your pocket, you feel it you don’t you know, it’s like it’s constantly

Chris Hoyt, CXR 10:08
Well, that was kind of that was kind of the bullshit factor that came up during the pandemic, oh my gosh, Robin home and it’s we’re gonna be able to be around the kids more we’re gonna be able to this morning, like everybody ended up working way more hours. And at first, I think and tell me if you disagree, but at first, I think we justified it by by and large, those who were commuting said, Well, these were my commuting times anyway, it’s fine. And then I think that creeped out and then we lost that commute time. That was our regenerate. And now. Now we’ve got laptops on the couch after dinner now like it’s I think it’s worse than it’s ever been.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 10:45
Not only is it like constant, but there’s no it’s like distracted hours. That was what was so hard because I have small little kids, where I’m working a lot, but the work quality is not good. And it’s also not thorough, because you’re doing 15 things at once. You know? So that’s also, you know, I would also say that that is a argument for the four day workweek. Because on our Fridays, you know, we have off, I don’t consider this work at all. But my business partner, Scott, we were also very close friends, we’ve been building a business together for 10 years, almost, you know, we go for hikes in the morning on Fridays together just because Sure, it’s it’s social, but it’s his work because we talk about work, but it’s more of like ideas, thoughts, the things that you can’t actually do during the four day work, you know, four day weeks when you’re, like crushing it in the details, like you can’t necessarily think strategically. So I know that was what was really, lots of things are hard about COVID. But one was just the the expecting to you know, you’re working more, but also your brains divided your attentions divided. So you’re working longer and not better at all. Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:49
So from what you’ve learned, if you feel as a two part question, so do you feel like you are? If not that you have nailed it? Do you feel like you are successfully working towards a more productive work experience? And in this, you know, next iteration of Stories, four day work week, do you feel like you’re kind of getting there? You figured it out?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 12:10
I do. I do think so. And I, I feel like there are real reasons. So I don’t want to say like I’m justifying it by, I think that it’s really I know, it’s really working, our retention is great. We’re all happier. We do, you know, like I mentioned the Slack channel, on Fridays, and doing daily snapshots. But we share a lot about what’s happening like on our lives, we’re encouraging people to live their full lives and do things on Fridays. But I’d say also, when you’re doing client work, that can be intense. And I think you do need a day. And like, that’s a lot required to view to be you know, and then I’d say even just as a company leader, needing to think of what’s next or brainstorm or, you know, digest what’s happening in the business. And as you know, this whole crazy two years has been how, you know, by reacting by not doing so in the moment, but actually having time to think I think those Fridays have been critical, in addition to doing, you know, doing the things that you need to do or want to do in your life, but even from the work, kind of like you were talking earlier about the things that happen in the shower things that you’re not even thinking about work, but you’re allowed to. There’s some creative bursts that come from having that like not being locked down in the weeds for you know, five days a week.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:29
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. Well, I think it’s, we have to figure it out. It’s a process, right? We’re learning as we go.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 13:35
So for talent, attraction to like we’ve just recruited, you know, and for a small company to be everybody’s recruiting everybody. But thus having a four day workweek allowed us to have a lot of conversations, you know, to start a lot of conversations with candidates that may not have considered a company our size.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:53
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, no doubt. Let me let me ask you. So take us out with sort of your lesson, your biggest lesson learned, or your biggest sort of piece of advice for talent acquisition leaders who are who are trying to figure out how to have a not necessarily a four day workweek, but a more flexible, more productive workweek, as we’re in our 25th 26 a month of figuring out how to work from home trying to be balanced, manage a team, manage a family manage the dog. I mean, like all of it together, like what would you what would you tell them? How should they sort of approach that? Or what was the big lesson for you to sort of get there in that direction you’re headed?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 14:31
Yeah, close the office, even if it’s for a few hours, and you also leave. It’s not helpful if you’re like, Oh, we don’t work Fridays, but here I am sending emails all day and you can see me doing work things that is not that is so stressful for your team. So I’d say even if you can’t do it for a day, take hours, close the office. Nothing should happen. Give real time off. You know, there’s also that like We have unlimited vacation, which is a is a trap. Because in a way, because if you’re not telling people, you actually have to take three weeks or give them a minimum, then it’s almost like sometimes it never happens. So I think that would be one advice, even just for a few hours, like you also Shut, shut it down, do not you know, be sending emails and doing those things and making people feel weird about it, like, shut down. And I’d say also like, prioritizing that time to think and be creative and read something that might apply or, you know, a day that you think that’s been really, I’ve really needed that I didn’t know I needed it until, you know, some not too late, but it’s you’re in the thick of COVID. You’re like, Oh, I really need a really need some space to myself to think things through. So I’d say that it’s beneficial for all and especially your leaders.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:50
Nice. I love that. I think so sort of in tandem with that. I think we’ve seen a couple of leaders, we now do it too at CXR, it’s almost a no camera operations day, you’re not off, but it is a day to start off. And I hate to use this phrase, I’m gonna do it to hunker down and work on a few things where you don’t have to worry about the camera being on you don’t have to worry about your, you know, your office presence, but that you can really focus on some of those big ideas. And I think that sort of sits nicely with what you’re saying.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 16:17
Yeah, it’s I just saw a meme the other day, which was hysterical was like 22 At least it resonate with me, it’s like 2020 smiling on Zoom, commiserating, you know? Oh, you’re on mute. And then the three, three cups of tea, the zero 2021 was like 12 cups of tea. No, seriously, you’re on mute. You know, like, tense, video and toy does like video off it’s one button. In a coffee in the bank. I think it’s getting a little bit better. But it’s it’s uh, yeah, it’s been it’s interesting. I’ll find that said too. It’s,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 16:55
Yeah, it’s making a comeback. I think sweatpants are slowly phasing out again, getting back to putting pants on during the day. Camera times down to 50%. I love it. Lauryn. Thank you so much. We definitely gonna have to have you on we really appreciate your insight. We’re so glad that you made time for us. And we just appreciate you. Thank you.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 17:12
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was great to be here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:14
All right, everybody. You know where we’re at at CXR.works/podcast. You can subscribe to us on every stinking thing you listen to the podcast on so we’re happy to have you there and until then we’ll see out on the community site at CXR.works

Announcer 17:26
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🗒️ View Transcript

Welcome to the CXR channel. Our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:21
I’m Chris Hoyt, the president of CareerXroads I am your host for today’s CXR Podcast. I’m super excited to be joined by Lauryn Sargent with Stories Inc. She’s a partner there and Lauryn you’re in I think we were just talking about this in the green room. You’re in DC, right?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 0:35
Yes.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:36
Yeah. Which has where we say a similar weather I’m in Austin and a similar weather to Austin or it’s it’s close

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 0:44
I would love I would love to say that but today it’s not 48 like it is in Austin but today was is surprisingly nice out after days of like frigid Don’t you dare go outside without like being totally loaded up today is kind of like a maybe just your jacket.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:01
So I pretty good I actually been trip coming up to go see the northern lights. And I’m very excited. So a couple weeks we’ve planned at this time of year because of the the amount of darkness versus you know daylight to be able to see them so it’s a bucket list item but it is supposed to be minus 20 ferinheight and I feel like I’m I’m in fear of my soul freezing.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:29
You’ll be able to see it. You’ll Breathe it out and see it frozen.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:33
Yeah, do you? Do you put it in your jacket?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:36
Your soul? I don’t know when it freezes. Where do you put your soul? You know, and like I like to think I really thought this in Greenland too. I’m from Cleveland. So I love to think like oh, cold weather. No big deal. But when you said negative 20 degrees, my whole soul just froze.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:51
It’s like do you want to breathe here slowly?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 1:54
Yeah, like negative 20 Man That is crazy. But now the lights the lights and bucket list plus story experience. Like that’s sounds like an experience. Sounds like an adventure.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:08
We’ll see I’ve never been it’s we’re going to Fairbanks to do it. So we’ll see. We’ll see how it goes. There might be some dog mushing that could be fun too.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 2:14
Oh, very cool.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:15
Lauryn, for those who don’t know you obviously I said where you’re working but why don’t you give us what I like to call the escalator pitch of who is Lauryn Sargent tell us a little bit about yourself how long you’ve been in the space and kind of what you do and then hell you know what, give us some Stories Inc schpel What the hell is Stories inc?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 2:33
Okay, I can do that. I’m I’m Lauryn Sargent I’m the co founder and partner at Stories Inc. And prior to Stories Inc. I was in recruiting for about eight years and I used to say like everything recruiting so contingency and then executive search and then corporate before quitting my job to found co found Stories Inc. with my partner Scott. Stories Inc is a player branding and marketing content creation company. And we our whole premises that employee stories are the thing. That’s the thing that really gives clarity to candidates. Yeah, what else about me? I got I’ve got two kids. I’m in DC. I’m a little weird. quirky. Let’s see what else about me? Yeah, I’m probably gonna die in DC. I love it. I’m from Ohio but I love it here. Probably even in my house.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:26
In that house, you love that house so much in that city, you’re going nowhere.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 3:30
Creature of habit. I mean, over COVID That’s the kind of thing where like, you know, you start to notice things about your house. And so I’ve done little things I’ve made it really my own even I’ve lived here 10 years, the last like six months has really been clutch because it’s like, exactly everything that I see is like something that I’ve even replacing the doorknobs you know, just things that you do in COVID, where you’re like, I can’t deal with this anymore. I’ve been there too long. I gotta switch it up. So

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:54
So okay, so it’s a good thing. You love your house so much? Because you’ve been in it quite a bit.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 3:59
Yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:59
For the last two years,

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:00
That could have gone the opposite way, you know, could have moved can’t stand it anymore like that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:04
Well, that a lot of people did that. I moved twice during COVID.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:07
Did you really? Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh, yeah, that’s a constant change, and look good for you. You did the opposite of what I did. So that’s how did that work out?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:18
Well, you know, getting ready to move again,

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:20
Really. Oh my god.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:23
So but that brings, that kind of brings us to our topic of we’re both in jobs where we have a very flexible opportunity, like a very flexible calendar, right the opportunity to sort of work when we want a little bit, we can move that around a little bit. So that’s why we invite you on the show to talk a little bit about what you guys have done from a flexibility standpoint. So so why don’t you kick us off there? Do you have an opinion of what a flexible workforce should look like?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 4:49
Yeah, I think you know, it just so many factors depend on who works for your company and what you view the ultimate experience and productivity and all those great things. But for us, I mean, we, prior to COVID, we experimented with a four day work week, in during the summers only. And it worked out really well. But I have to tell you, I think, even though I’ve been reading about progressive companies and working with progressive companies, and what’s the best in culture and those types of practices for a long time, I’m still pretty old school. So even when we had, you know, experiment, and it worked out great in the summer, I didn’t necessarily have the thought of let’s go make this happen full time. Until, you know, just before COVID, probably three months before COVID, senior leader at Stories said, why don’t we do this the whole year round? It’s like, oh, I guess we could should we that seems crazy, even though it’s not crazy for a lot of companies. But for me, it seemed like a really nutty thing to do. But we haven’t looked back since then. And then

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:53
I gotta ask, though, I gotta ask. So what’s a four day workweek look like? Does that mean now instead of working nine hour days, or 10 hour, days, five days a week, you’re working 15 hour days, four days a week? Like what is what? Are you losing productivity? What happens? What are the hours go?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 6:09
That’s a great question. And really, for our company, I’m getting a little bit specific, we’re almost split into where half of us I’m on the sales and marketing team working with progressive prospective customers and the other half are actually doing the project doing the work and working with clients. So that’s also two different kind of job categories. And then applying a four day work week on that, like, what is your out? What is your day look like? So I’d say from the sales and marketing side, it’s definitely a four day work week. But if someone needs to meet with us on a Friday, you know, we could probably make that work. But on the client side, we’ve had really, you know, no problem transition to four days that are about, you know, eight or nine hour days, and totally off on Fridays. So yeah, it’s actually like an eight or nine hour day for for four days a week. And then the fifth day really is we closed the office. So not only there, no internal meetings, we actually close the office down, like it’s with the exception of putting something in Slack. Or we have, you know, we have like a channel in Slack. And we have a daily snapshots, you know, where we love on Fridays to show all the things that we’re doing on that Friday, we don’t talk to each other unless it’s critical.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:21
You really do shut down really? For the most part, right? Like 80-90%. Shut down.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 7:26
Yeah. And I’ve got to tell you, the other thing is, you know, there’s that thought of, if you have a four day workweek, is it added flexibility to say you choose like, for your team? Oh, you choose? Do you don’t want to work Mondays? And that was a thought we had. But because we had experimented with the summer, I already knew that. It’s actually not a full day off when you feel like people are waiting on you. So on a Friday, if you’re the only one not working? You you feel like you are there still that like that thing in your head that’s like, oh, is someone waiting on me? Are people talking about work? And I should be part of this discussion, but on a bother me. So the best option was just a close, pick the day close it down? You know?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:09
That’s a really good point, Lauryn, because you hear a lot of people talking about flexible work, and letting people kind of decide their own schedules. But is could that just devil’s advocate, but could that be why a lot of organizations kind of scoff at that, like, it doesn’t really take off? It doesn’t work because of the conflicting I want my Mondays off, you want your Wednesday, somebody else thinks Friday? I mean, that’s some scheduling. That’s some scheduling nightmare material there.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 8:35
Yeah. And also just mentally, like, you feel like you’re not really taking the day off, you’re still thinking about work. Because if work is still happening at your company, and you’re like, not there, you’re missing it kind of like, you know, it’s been tough sometimes for me in recent years to take a vacation because you feel like oh, but there’s that one thing. But wait, I just need to make sure this comes through. You know, so it really is helpful to shut it down. Because then even mentally, you’re still connected.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:00
Well, and look, I’m a fan of Slack. And I think Slack started and I think their mantra if I remember right was gonna like we’re going to be the death of email. Yeah, but I have to tell you, like everybody that I talked to, especially those who are like, off, right, or we’re out or out and about, Slack seems to be the death of downtime.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 9:17
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree. I mean, I know. And I was, I was just because I knew I wanted to be, you know, to talk even though I’m living the four day work day life, you know, and I’m a leader that’s made that happen for our company. I still wanted to make sure I had cuz I knew I was gonna be talking with you. But I wanted to make sure I had done some research. And I saw this like, really interesting thing that the 1920s an economist, predicted that by 2030, we’d all be working 15 hour work weeks. And that was really interesting, because, you know, they didn’t know all the things but like, he didn’t realize it’s the opposite. He was thinking all this like innovation, like is going to mean that we’re doing less physical labor, which is probably true, but it’s actually You know, no, it’s always on, you know, the the technological advances are there because it’s on your phones in your pocket, you feel it you don’t you know, it’s like it’s constantly

Chris Hoyt, CXR 10:08
Well, that was kind of that was kind of the bullshit factor that came up during the pandemic, oh my gosh, Robin home and it’s we’re gonna be able to be around the kids more we’re gonna be able to this morning, like everybody ended up working way more hours. And at first, I think and tell me if you disagree, but at first, I think we justified it by by and large, those who were commuting said, Well, these were my commuting times anyway, it’s fine. And then I think that creeped out and then we lost that commute time. That was our regenerate. And now. Now we’ve got laptops on the couch after dinner now like it’s I think it’s worse than it’s ever been.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 10:45
Not only is it like constant, but there’s no it’s like distracted hours. That was what was so hard because I have small little kids, where I’m working a lot, but the work quality is not good. And it’s also not thorough, because you’re doing 15 things at once. You know? So that’s also, you know, I would also say that that is a argument for the four day workweek. Because on our Fridays, you know, we have off, I don’t consider this work at all. But my business partner, Scott, we were also very close friends, we’ve been building a business together for 10 years, almost, you know, we go for hikes in the morning on Fridays together just because Sure, it’s it’s social, but it’s his work because we talk about work, but it’s more of like ideas, thoughts, the things that you can’t actually do during the four day work, you know, four day weeks when you’re, like crushing it in the details, like you can’t necessarily think strategically. So I know that was what was really, lots of things are hard about COVID. But one was just the the expecting to you know, you’re working more, but also your brains divided your attentions divided. So you’re working longer and not better at all. Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:49
So from what you’ve learned, if you feel as a two part question, so do you feel like you are? If not that you have nailed it? Do you feel like you are successfully working towards a more productive work experience? And in this, you know, next iteration of Stories, four day work week, do you feel like you’re kind of getting there? You figured it out?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 12:10
I do. I do think so. And I, I feel like there are real reasons. So I don’t want to say like I’m justifying it by, I think that it’s really I know, it’s really working, our retention is great. We’re all happier. We do, you know, like I mentioned the Slack channel, on Fridays, and doing daily snapshots. But we share a lot about what’s happening like on our lives, we’re encouraging people to live their full lives and do things on Fridays. But I’d say also, when you’re doing client work, that can be intense. And I think you do need a day. And like, that’s a lot required to view to be you know, and then I’d say even just as a company leader, needing to think of what’s next or brainstorm or, you know, digest what’s happening in the business. And as you know, this whole crazy two years has been how, you know, by reacting by not doing so in the moment, but actually having time to think I think those Fridays have been critical, in addition to doing, you know, doing the things that you need to do or want to do in your life, but even from the work, kind of like you were talking earlier about the things that happen in the shower things that you’re not even thinking about work, but you’re allowed to. There’s some creative bursts that come from having that like not being locked down in the weeds for you know, five days a week.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:29
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. Well, I think it’s, we have to figure it out. It’s a process, right? We’re learning as we go.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 13:35
So for talent, attraction to like we’ve just recruited, you know, and for a small company to be everybody’s recruiting everybody. But thus having a four day workweek allowed us to have a lot of conversations, you know, to start a lot of conversations with candidates that may not have considered a company our size.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:53
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, no doubt. Let me let me ask you. So take us out with sort of your lesson, your biggest lesson learned, or your biggest sort of piece of advice for talent acquisition leaders who are who are trying to figure out how to have a not necessarily a four day workweek, but a more flexible, more productive workweek, as we’re in our 25th 26 a month of figuring out how to work from home trying to be balanced, manage a team, manage a family manage the dog. I mean, like all of it together, like what would you what would you tell them? How should they sort of approach that? Or what was the big lesson for you to sort of get there in that direction you’re headed?

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 14:31
Yeah, close the office, even if it’s for a few hours, and you also leave. It’s not helpful if you’re like, Oh, we don’t work Fridays, but here I am sending emails all day and you can see me doing work things that is not that is so stressful for your team. So I’d say even if you can’t do it for a day, take hours, close the office. Nothing should happen. Give real time off. You know, there’s also that like We have unlimited vacation, which is a is a trap. Because in a way, because if you’re not telling people, you actually have to take three weeks or give them a minimum, then it’s almost like sometimes it never happens. So I think that would be one advice, even just for a few hours, like you also Shut, shut it down, do not you know, be sending emails and doing those things and making people feel weird about it, like, shut down. And I’d say also like, prioritizing that time to think and be creative and read something that might apply or, you know, a day that you think that’s been really, I’ve really needed that I didn’t know I needed it until, you know, some not too late, but it’s you’re in the thick of COVID. You’re like, Oh, I really need a really need some space to myself to think things through. So I’d say that it’s beneficial for all and especially your leaders.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:50
Nice. I love that. I think so sort of in tandem with that. I think we’ve seen a couple of leaders, we now do it too at CXR, it’s almost a no camera operations day, you’re not off, but it is a day to start off. And I hate to use this phrase, I’m gonna do it to hunker down and work on a few things where you don’t have to worry about the camera being on you don’t have to worry about your, you know, your office presence, but that you can really focus on some of those big ideas. And I think that sort of sits nicely with what you’re saying.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 16:17
Yeah, it’s I just saw a meme the other day, which was hysterical was like 22 At least it resonate with me, it’s like 2020 smiling on Zoom, commiserating, you know? Oh, you’re on mute. And then the three, three cups of tea, the zero 2021 was like 12 cups of tea. No, seriously, you’re on mute. You know, like, tense, video and toy does like video off it’s one button. In a coffee in the bank. I think it’s getting a little bit better. But it’s it’s uh, yeah, it’s been it’s interesting. I’ll find that said too. It’s,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 16:55
Yeah, it’s making a comeback. I think sweatpants are slowly phasing out again, getting back to putting pants on during the day. Camera times down to 50%. I love it. Lauryn. Thank you so much. We definitely gonna have to have you on we really appreciate your insight. We’re so glad that you made time for us. And we just appreciate you. Thank you.

Lauryn Sargent, Stories Inc. 17:12
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was great to be here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:14
All right, everybody. You know where we’re at at CXR.works/podcast. You can subscribe to us on every stinking thing you listen to the podcast on so we’re happy to have you there and until then we’ll see out on the community site at CXR.works

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