S5 E39 | Recruiting Community: Recruiting Automation with Adam Gordon, iCIMS

Adam Gordon returns to Recruiting Community to talk with Hoyt about how people should be thinking about, and considering, recruiting and marketing automation.

S5 E39 | Recruiting Community: Recruiting Automation with Adam Gordon, iCIMS

Adam Gordon returns to Recruiting Community to talk with Hoyt about how people should be thinking about, and considering, recruiting and marketing automation.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:01
So you’re in Manchester.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 0:03
I’m in Manchester. It’s the in house recruitment leaders conference tomorrow and I’m taking about 10 or 12 people out for dinner this evening. So very much looking forward to that. Manchester is a fun city. It’s quite like Glasgow. People are very down to earth. It’s quite working class city like Glasgow is famous for Manchester United Manchester City Football Teams, famous racists famous for Yeah, quite a few things in the past.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:32
That’s not the location where Ryan Reynolds bought the football team.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 0:37
No, that’s in Wales, that’s probably a couple of hours from here. Not that far.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:45
Yeah. Well, it’s it seems to be I said this, like, I guess a month or so ago, I felt like all the conferences everywhere. Last minute said, Okay, let’s go. And they flip the switches. And it was from nothing to that. Now we’re on like, I’m on the road next week. I just got back, like Monday night. So just just a couple of nights ago, I got back. We had a conference the week before Gerry was another thing that we got two weeks ahead of nothing but this and it feels like kind of what we’re back to normal on the road.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 1:14
Yeah, maybe for you. I’m still doing my best to avoid traveling as much as I can.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:19
I didn’t say I was jumping to go. I’m not excited about it.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 1:25
Nah, now it’s gonna be it’s gonna be good tomorrow. I’m looking forward to seeing people. I was really gotten to a Unleashed. I was on holiday last week. That was badly timed. Unfortunately, I should have gotten this week rather than last week. Because Unleashed would have been excellent. But, ya know, it’s nice to see people but I’m never going back to what I was before the pandemic that was pretty much every week, of the year. So I was doing 100 flights a year, for years. And yeah, I’m not I’m never going back to that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:55
Well, no, I don’t think I ever will. I think I swear I think before the pandemic, I must have been traveling in like, 80% of the Year like I was on the road. Yeah, yeah. So it’s nice to like, you know, are we more introverted now? Is that do you think that’s what’s happened to us?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 2:09
It’s funny, I definitely, I don’t know whether I don’t know whether I was always introverted. And I just hadn’t realized that I was putting on an act of being you know, being an actual extrovert while I was building a business, I don’t know. But I certainly feel a lot more introverted than I was. The thought of going into a room with hundreds of people and going in like work in the room is used to be just like second nature. And I think it’s a little bit intimidating now.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:34
Really, do you think is it? It? Do you think it’s virus focused? Like you’re worried about getting sick? You’re just like, oh, no, it’s overwhelming because of the people?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 2:43
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s not even Yeah, it’s not the virus, I don’t care about that. It’s the and actually, I’ve been in, I’ve been in plenty of like boxing matches, and football matches and rugby match. And there’s, like 1000s and 1000s of people there. And I haven’t been bothered about that, because nobody’s expecting me to talk to them. Whereas I think, you know, at an event, you know, an industry event or something like that, where everybody’s expecting you to see something be entertaining or be interesting. And I think that’s the where where I think my like slight anxiety, but it’s come from I never used to be anxious about things like that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:20
Yeah, Adam I had a conversation a few weeks ago with a with another leader who said, it felt interesting to be back on. So like, when you’re out I think to your point when you’re on it, but you have to be on the whole time. There’s no There’s no breather in between that and that can be exhausting.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 3:35
Yeah, I’ve definitely learned about the concept of executive energy and you know, you just cannot maintain being like super pumped the whole time. However, you I’ve definitely learned a lot about you know, when do you need to crescendo that energy and when do you need to try and preserve that energy? And yeah, I was probably on too often, previously. And so I think that’s part of maturing as well learning about these things.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:04
What do you say maturing, I was saying old, like I just turned 50 And I feel like around 45 the momentum of like being on the whole time I just didn’t have any interested in anymore.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 4:15
I’m keeping good time with you then in that case, because I’m I’m 45 just started

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:22
All right, we’re gonna have a fun chat today. You ready? Ready to jump in?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 4:26

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:27
Okay, here we go.

CXR Announcer 4:29
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Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:58
Okay, good day watchers and listeners, Welcome to the recruiting community Podcast. I’m Chris Hoyt, president of career crossroads. It’s a community of over 50,000, recruiting professionals and leaders who believe in learning, and helping to lift up the recruiting industry and really in helping each other succeed and become better ta professionals. Now, before I forget, I want to nudge you to click on the subscribe or like button, let us know that you were here. We are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and of course CXR.works/podcast and you’ll also find us on any service like Spotify, YouTube, and others wherever you may be listening or watching your favorite podcasts. If it is your first time listening, you’re going to find that we bring recruiting leaders, practitioners and personalities to the show, to talk about what our membership body says is top of mind for them. And we’re talking about recruiting professionals at companies that are hiring anywhere between 2000 and 200,000 people a year each. Now these 20 minute chats are commercial free, regardless of who is on the mic, as we aren’t a pay to play or sponsored type show. So this is 100% a labor of love and it results in what we think are good conversations we think you’re gonna want to be part of. Now if you happen to be listening live, feel free to jump into the chat with any questions, likes or comments, we will do our best to make sure that we call you out or circle back to you offline. Now. Today, we’re talking a little bit about recruiting or recruitment, marketing automation, and the increasing role that AI does or could play on that front, we have a guest who is no stranger to the recruiting community podcast, and that we are excited to welcome back. And so please say hello to Adam Gordon. Adam, how are you?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 6:41
Hi, I’m great, Chris, thanks so much for having me. Big fan of your work. Know if you love what you do, it’s not absolutely. So yeah. Thank you for having me.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 6:54
Yeah, we’re glad to have you back. Adam. For those who don’t know you. Why don’t you give us a little bit of an escalator pitch of Who is Adam Gordon, and why should we be listening to you today?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS  7:05
Yeah, sure. So I started in recruitment in 1999, recruiting accountants at a staffing agency, I did that for three years. And I’d worked out that the thing that I really enjoyed was all the work that was put into getting the person into the room with me, all of the talent sourcing work and talent, attraction, work, recruitment, marketing, all of the employer branding stuff. And that’s what I really wanted to focus on. So since 2002, I’ve pretty much focused exclusively on recruitment, marketing, providing services, and more recently providing technologies. So I was co founder of a company called Candidate ID, which we sold to iCIMS earlier this year. And my mission is to help companies do recruitment marketing better.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:57
So let me ask you, Adam, for those who may be on sort of different areas of the spectrum, when we talk about recruiting technology, when we say recruitment, marketing, and we start talking a little bit about Well, let’s start with that when we say recruitment, marketing, what what does that mean to you?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 8:14
So recruitment marketing to me is there’s there’s an interesting ongoing discussion about his employer brand being part of recruitment marketing, or is it recruitment marketing, part of employer branding? And there’s no real answer to that. I don’t think it is a chicken and egg. concept, I believe, but recruitment marketing is all of the active efforts that you put into bringing people to your job descriptions. And then getting their way, and then getting them to take the interview, getting them to take the job, and then stay up. So I think it’s quite broad includes all the different channels includes all the different content formats, or the calls to action, all the analytics involved in all of that. And I believe Employer Branding is a facet of this thread all the way through it. And I think that we have got a very large amount of space for improvement in talent acquisition, and there is no reason why there should be any gap in terms of how sophisticated we are versus our colleagues in mainstream marketing today, we’ve got access to the same types of technologies and tools and techniques. And all we need to do is turn up to their conferences a little bit more often and listen a little bit more carefully and read their blogs. And you know, we can be doing exactly what they’re doing.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:34
Yeah, we can be you know, Adam you bring up sort of an interesting you ring a bell with me there because, you know, having come out of a large CPG organization, when when my focus was solely on recruitment marketing. Yeah, they did have the big kid toys over on the consumer marketing side, but they didn’t always want to play because sometimes the recruitment seen as a distractor just just distraction for them because they are focused on getting everyone to Buy something. And any any anything that peels somebody off of that really tends to rub the digital folks or the marketing folks on the consumer side wrong.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 10:10
Yeah, no, I agree with that my wife was officer for large companies. And when she was asked to get involved in recruitment, she wasn’t gonna get fired, if people didn’t get people hired, she was going to get fired if her company wasn’t generate if our team was not generating enough, you know, pipeline. So, recruitment, recruitment was was definitely not our responsibility, I don’t think we can rely on our colleagues to actually help us do things, but what we can do is go and try and access their technologies, maybe with an additional license or additional accounts or something like that, piggyback on that that shouldn’t cause them any problems, what we also want to do is just try and sit in in their team meetings as a fly on the wall just to keep learning. And there’s another important one here, and that is that there are certain types of recruitment marketing, which for me, are very much the CPG marketing, wouldn’t be really useful for so if you’re in volume, for example, then the CPG marketing type of approach is something that is going to be very valuable. But if you’re hiring prior primarily, people in technology, or accountants, or program managers, or enterprise sales professionals, these people are not making decisions based on am I going to choose Pepsi or Diet Pepsi, they’re not making decisions like that. They’re making decisions with a much more considered considered purchase. So the type of marketing that you want to be doing to those people is a bit more like, what type of car should I be encouraging people to try and buy or, you know, airline or holiday locations or wedding venues, or it’s much more of a considered purchase, it’s a higher value. Item. And when somebody’s moving from one accounting firm to another, they’re doing it based on I think nurture over time, and a lot more different levers rather than just, you know, politic that one or that one.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 12:16
Yeah, well, I wouldn’t disagree with you, I would call out I think he said something kind of interesting in that, that most especially, excuse me, especially more up and coming, recruitment, marketing professionals should realize you don’t need a full suite of the tools. If you’re if your consumer side actually has it, you can maybe just in the form of a partnership get one license on top of their broader contract, right?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 12:40
Yeah, possibly. The only thing I would say is there are there are nuances in in recruitment. And so if you wanted to use, you know, a mainstream CRM, like Salesforce or something like that, for, you know, keeping in touch with candidates, that first of all, the labels, like the buttons are not as intuitive as they are on a recruitment marketing CRM or recruitment CRM. So the workflows are slightly different. And so but certainly going to looking at what are they using and working out with that type of approach be useful for me? And if I could use that technology, then great if I need to go and try and establish an equivalent within my area within recruitment? Like what is the equivalent technology over here? So from a Salesforce, of course, there’s lots of different recruitment marketing, CRM recruitment CRMs, which, which, you know, could be an equivalent and might be more intuitive mighty for my team to use. But in terms of things like advertising and Google Analytics, and things like that, absolutely. Beg borrow and steal.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:50
Yeah. Well, and I think they scale differently. And they’re typically priced quite differently as well. But let me ask Adam, so when we say recruitment, marketing and automation, when we mash that up together, like what does that span? Is it everything from how to how the job sort of determine who gets to see them where they’re presented to? What email campaigns and responses from from the ATS?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 14:16
Yeah, I mean, we have we have been using this term marketing automation in recruitment a little bit broad. And actually, if you don’t mainstream sales and marketing team marketing automation, is the technology which allows you to distribute communications to people to track and score all of their clicks to apply automatically apply engagement scores to those clicks. So if they’re opening an email, if they’re clicking links, if they’re opening a text message, if they’re clicking links, if they’re going to your website, if they’re watching videos, if they’re looking on your Twitter or your LinkedIn or your Facebook, if they’re going to you know certain pages of your website like your pricing page, things like that. Yeah, that’s what marketing automation does. And when we started to use that term a little bit to describe other programmatic technologies, like in the advertising area, and that kind of thing, but I’m particularly interested in the recruitment equivalents to our HubSpot and Marketo and Paradox. And lookers, and those types of technologies. Marketing automation has got a specific definition. And so, you know, when I talk about marketing automation, it’s not really on the advertising side, and things like chat bots and things like that. It’s very much around, you know, how can we do talent nurture, on a programmatic way, where with every click somebody makes, they’re going to get an adaptive experience, which becomes more and more personalized for them? That’s what,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:47
Yeah, so at that, at that level, it seems to me that if you have a somewhat modern applicant tracking system, not even not even CRM, let’s keep it super basic, somewhat, modern applicant tracking system, then you you have some element of recruitment marketing built into that, right with response, you can do notifications, or email responses, or maybe even drip campaigns, depending on how you sorta, how you structure those yeah?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 16:15
Yes, but that’s not marketing automation. So that is time delayed actions, that is I will set up so if I’m using a CRM to do this, or an applicant tracking system to do this, I may be able to set up an auto responder. So somebody’s filled in a form, they get an email, you know, immediately to confirm their attendance at the event or to confirm that their resume has been received or something like that, I can set up an email goes out to them tomorrow. And then another one with different content goes out three days later. And then another one goes out three days later, that sort of thing. That is too basic to be described as marketing automation. So the most important aspects of marketing automation are it tracks the each, in, Digital’s clicks in and of locations, and can trigger actions based on this, not based on the batch and blast searches. I’m going to send this to all these people today. And then three days in them in three days. Everybody gets everything. That’s what we would describe as batch and blast. The nuance of marketing automation is it’s really personalized. And it’s basically individuals clicks. So the what they get next, the next always a next best action. There’s no cul de sacs, there’s no dead ends, they never nothing next, their last click determines what they specifically get. So Chris, and Adam might be in the same talent pipeline, we might be getting the same initial communication, which comes out by email, you’ve clicked on some stuff and gone one direction, but then you’ve stopped. I’ve clicked on different things and gone on a different direction that I’ve stopped. The next communication that you and I will get will be something different a couple of days later, because we’ve displayed different behaviors. So how do you personalize for scale? You do it with marketing automation, a CRM or an ATS doesn’t know enough about the candidates about each individual? Because it’s not using the same type of tracking methods?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 18:13
Yeah, well, I mean, based on that description, my relatively relatively new or recent ATS isn’t going to have that capability at all.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 18:23
No, no, it’s not. It’s a it’s a it’s it’s built to automation technologies are built on a different, like platform architecture. And they use things like they use innovative ways of applying primary cookie tracking, they use things like IP recognition, they’re able to determine what device you’re using, and they should, and what’s your browser, and what’s your operating system, and all these sorts of things. So that if I get I get a message from a company that’s interested in me on my cell phone, I open it up, I think this is interesting, I click through to a landing page, and then I go, I’m in my office, I don’t really want to have this conversation here. I don’t want to I don’t want to sort of do this research here. I’m gonna go home. So I’ve still I’ve chained laptop out and start researching this organization further. A marketing automation technology knows that that’s that same person who started on their cell, and then went on to their laptop, and it’s tying up all of this. And crucially, it’s applying engagement points to all the clicks as well so that talent, sorcerers can filter their pipelines on that real time engagement score, and get to shortlist faster. So that’s, again, not something you can do with a with an ATS or a CRM, that engagement tracking is something which is vital.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 19:37
So Adam, in your opinion, recruitment, marketing, automation, bigger impact on speed to hire or quality of hire?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 19:44
Both because when you’re able to filter your talent pipelines on that real time engagement score, and you can see who’s interested in us today. What that means is you’re going to be able to get to shortlist typically 50% Faster, how it can really impact on the quality of hire is because of the really like, the most optimal level of personalization at scale. That means that Chris and Adam and Sarah, and Briony, who have all got completely different interests, we want our content through different channels, different content formats on different days of the week, because the four of us are all good candidates, but we’re getting a more personal, personalized experience we’re going to keep and because all four of us are good candidates, and we’re getting a personalized experience. It means that we’re coming through the funnel. And you know, if we were all getting the same thing with me, only one of us would. So I would certainly say impact on both of these.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:46
Is anybody do you think anybody because I have to tell you, it’s kind of interesting. We are seeing that quality of hire conversation bubble back up for leaders with like with a vengeance, right? They’re really, really focusing on that. And we’re seeing AI anecdotally AI conversations sort of calmed down a little bit. And part of me is like, Well, is it shiny bobble? And we’re losing a little bit of the shiny? Or is this just that typical? You know, pendulum of AI can only focus on so many things at once. Are you seeing sort of the same thing? Are you seeing a shift away from Ai conversations and more to quality of hire, or any of this within the realm of recruitment marketing?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 21:25
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s a couple of different things that are driving the reduction in hype around AI. One of those is the let’s call it mixed reputation that AI has developed for itself. Self when it comes to things, anti bias. Right, yeah, or actuating bias, which could be the other way, it can be, you know, considered. So does everybody want to attach themselves to a type of technology, which has been getting mixed feedback in recruitment right now? No, probably not, it wasn’t getting the same mixed reputation in a couple of years ago. That’s one thing. The added to that would be federal, or state laws in the USA, and lots of different moves in the Europe as well, which is going to mean that over time, organizations, employers have to, they will become completely responsive to both for the intelligence and not, not the vendor who’s providing the service that’s giving a lot of people considerable pause for thought. And then there’s a third one, which is, because of what I’ve just explained, recruitment technology companies have stopped putting AI on the front page of their website as much, that probably does not mean that they’ve stopped using it, it means they’ve stopped leading with it. I mean, there are so many examples of exciting developments in recruitment technology that have come to a standstill, because the companies the employers have gone, I can’t have this. So an example would be certain types of natural language processing in the chat bot area, where the technology is so unsupervised, and actually so good, that people have become very nervous about say, so not have a chatbot or any NLP based artificial intelligence, which blurt something out that’s racist, or start swearing at a candidate, or, you know, because it’s got so it’s got frustrated with the candidates response that tells them to F off. There are so many ways that the technology very unlikely, but even if there’s a naught point 1% chance, big corporates are just gonna go.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:17
Well I get your point and I mean, that is an extreme example. But I mean, I do get your point. And I think that we, I mean, I think there is a swell of interest in both on the front of ethics within AI. Right. So how do we avoid that bias? What did you call that bias? enhancement or bias?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 24:35
Yeah, amplification or something?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:38
But actually amplifying the bias. And then also, I think there’s a growing interest in holding vendors more accountable to what really is AI within the product, right. I think there’s an interest in not just their competitors, but also the leaders who have been buying AI for two or three years now and aren’t really getting more than simple autocomplete or may You know, baseline chatbots in some instances?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 25:03
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with this. And I think that it is. Interestingly, I do believe that as technologies like that are starting to mature, the description of them has changed slightly. So there are still lots of technologies in our industry that have got machine learning programs embedded within them. But they’re just not metering on that, because it’s quite ubiquitous. It’s not the thing that’s really going to help them stand out. No, it’s not the USP because like everybody’s using it. But I think that we’re probably not far away from further shifts in technology, which are going to make a big difference to how we interact with candidates and how we, you know, get them interested in our organizations and working in our organizations. I mean, I’ve never seen probably 10 years ago, people were saying, look, there’s more change happening now than, you know, over the last year than in the last 1000 years. I mean, that was nothing compared to no 10 You This is like speed of change is unbelievable.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:15
I don’t know I had a conversation, there was a talent acquisition leader who had just been put in his role he’d never been in ta before this was maybe a month ago, I might have shared this on one of the last shows. But so he rang us up and he said, Well, what do I need to know? Like what like a nudity a come from this spot. You know, we work with you guys as an organization, what I need to know about ta, and we’re talking about everything that the leaders are talking about, we’re talking about what we’re seeing on the frontlines, we’re talking about people we’re talking about is in two years, what happened five years ago, et cetera. And, you know, he says, What a, what an amazing and crazy time to join ta. And I said, I don’t know how to tell you this, it’s kind of like this every year, for my last 30 years. Every year, there’s something there’s an acquisition, there’s, you know, an organization goes under, there’s massive layoffs or restructure, there’s new technology that it’s every year, it’s just all the time, I feel like it’s all the time, it’s not that different.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 27:08
I feel like the thing that’s making a huge difference right now is the change in workforce and the way that people want to work. You know, there’s never been as much demand for flexibility. And there’s never been as many opportunities for people to be able to make money. If I was an expert on, I don’t know, crochet, then I could possibly make money from Tik Tok, or from YouTube, or from eBay, or from Amazon, you know, if I was a, a singer so, you know, I really believe that that’s one of the things that’s created so many changes.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:06
You know, I don’t disagree with you. But I would, I would argue that it’s just something else. It’s just not what it was last time, there’s this huge focus on I mean, you remember when it was all about internet applicant, and everybody was sort of struggling to make that, you know, that shift and how people apply and that meant a change largely at some organizations, certainly, not only into what type of people were applying what skills were people applying with? Like, I just think it’s something different and I’m not being dismissive. But I think it’s just something different for us you know, to hold our attention for us to focus on that change it’s constant transformation in our space

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 28:43
What was the background of that leader that he got that job?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:49
He I believe he came out of finance

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 28:54
That’s not what I was expecting you to say if you’d sense

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:59
Let me ask you so put it put it in order because where we typically see them sucked in to GA from sometimes it’s legal. Right finance, we’re seeing a little bit of that and and on the marketing side with like, what how would you rank and what are your top three immigrants, what we’d call them immigrants to recruiting, where do they come from?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 29:22
If somebody’s moving from finance into leading TA, I think that says a lot about the company’s, you know, expectations around cost per hire. I think people that have been in sales or marketing are probably very good, especially if the lead if they’ve been like, sales ops, manager, marketing ops manager, those types of people. They’ve looked after technologies and processes and, you know, performance enhancements. I think that’s a really good one. I’ve met plenty of people that have come from HR to ta, and yes, it works. They can they can cross borders with their colleagues. But I do I do think that the best ta leaders I know have been in TA for a considerable amount of time.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 30:18
Oh, yeah. Well, they’ve seen a lot, right. I mean, it is interesting. And I’m not I’m not knocking. I’m not knocking our folks. But how many? How many ta professionals? Do you think take the leap over into finance? Or take the leap in the other direction?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 30:32
Yeah, not not no, not very many. I do believe I do believe that. I think I’ve said this to you before, other than a self assessment. every other aspect of of ta has got a parallel in sales and marketing. There’s not a lot of difference. And in fact, even assessments, even in assessment that could be akin to like, customer qualification. So you know, there is there are some even some parallels in that. So people that have led sales and marketing teams, and I don’t I don’t favor one or the other. I think they’re both good. But but especially if they’ve had experience leading rev ops, or something like that. They understand how technologies fit together. They understand journeys, and how we want to bring people through the experiences we want people to give they understand funnel metrics and all that kind of thing. Yeah. I think I think they can do quite well financ is one I’ve not really heard about before, as naturally.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 31:36
Well, it’s been a number of months. We were late night does.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 31:39
Yes, Can’t wait to find out.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 31:43
Well, Adam, let me ask you, if somebody wants to learn more about recruiting on like automation within that world of recruitment, marketing? Where would you, where would you send them. Where would you send them to go find out more learn a little bit more about the topic?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 31:58
I mean, I talk about it pretty much every day on LinkedIn. So I think connect with me on LinkedIn, I’m quite easy to find Adam Gordon iCIMS is probably the easiest, just typed that into LinkedIn. And you’ll find me there. I talk about it all the time. I’m not going to send you to a whole bunch of corporate websites and things as if it’s an advert. So I will avoid doing that. But can you hear me on LinkedIn is probably the best thing to do.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:22
Alright, good stuff. Now, Adam, I ask everybody this as we wrap up every show, if you were going to write a book about this topic, this recruiting and marketing automation, what would the title of your book be?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 32:36
Oh, it would be I tell you what it would be it would be, there’s a concept that we always talk about. And that is you’ve got a really stale database, right? You’ve probably got 200,000 people on your applicant tracking system, you’ve probably got 90,000 people on your recruitment CRM, we always the first thing that we do when you start going to start recruitment marketing automation is you put them all into your marketing automation system, and you wake them all up. And that concept we call Waking the Dead. There are millions, millions and millions and millions of stale candidate records that I have personally had some experience in like trying to turn them into living, interested engaged applicants. And so it would be wicked wicked. Recruitment 2022: Waking the Dead

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:31
Waking the Dead. I love it. Who gets the first sign copy?

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 33:35

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:38
I’ll read it. I’ll read it. If you need someone to write the foreword or the backward. I’m happy. I’m happy to chime in.

Adam Gordon, ICIMS 33:44
I think I’ll come back to you on that for sure.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:49
Like Adam, thank you so much. So appreciative of your time. We’re glad you jumped on. I’m gonna throw you in the greenroom for a second hangout. Don’t go anywhere. Okay. All right. Super, super grateful. Always, always love to have Adam in here, I just want to share with everybody. If you haven’t already, or you’re not already aware head to CXR.works/podcasts. And that’s where you can learn about, you can listen to all the past events, you can see what’s coming up. And speaking of events, CXR.works/events. Because we’re back, we’re doing live meetings, they’re a lot of fun. You’re going to wish you went once you see some of the recaps. So those are pretty, pretty exciting, that we’re setting those back up for next year. So started with slash events. So check out what’s ahead, both digital and live. And of course, always you can learn more about career crossroads in that community at CXR.works. And if you aren’t already a member, see if you qualify to join us. If you are a member, make sure you’re taking advantage of our online forums. We’re doing the local dinners. We’ve got workshops, virtual roundtables, live meetings, of course, the leadership summits, we’ve got some incredible stuff that is in the library that includes many of our meetings, shared case studies, and decks from literally hundreds of company leaders and more. So until next time, have a great week. We’ll see online

CXR Announcer 35:04
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