S5 E34 | Recruiting Community : Katrina Kibben shares “van life” insights
Chris Hoyt, CXR
I’m crying here. That is the second reference to pseudo animal cruelty on our show. I don’t know if that counts, like, we had a hamster in the wheel reference, right and stopping and hamsters go, you know, off the wheel and they don’t know how to react. But now we have ants with magnifying glasses.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 0:20
Yeah, you know, I’ll say that’s not a practice that I enjoyed as a child or as an adult. I think the pandemic has essentially been that for all of us.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:32
Well, I’m not gonna lie, I think when I was a child sat in an anthill as a small child, and I’m forever scarred. So I may have, I may have had some retribution or moments with ants and magnifying glasses as a youngster, but certainly not in my formative, you know, not in my later years.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 0:50
You know, my parallel story of that, as I said, I want to be with the back of my knee. And fun fact, for anybody watching this my grandmother went to the store bought a pack of cigarettes, and I’m going tell you because this woman hated smoking. If you break a cigarette and rub it on the back on a beasting, it’ll immediately pull out the sticker. No joke.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:09
Wait, run that. Wait, What? What? You break
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 1:13
You break the tobacco apart? Uh, huh. Rabbit on a bee sting in the stinger out and soothe the sting. Because all the chemicals and everything that are in the cigarette?
Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:26
Wow. And then what do you do with that? Do you take the rest of the carton of cigarettes behind the band room at school? And then that’s
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 1:35
hand them out the eight year old.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:37
We smoked who doesn’t smoke in the band room. What’s the band room for anyway? Oh my god, are you ready to do this?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 1:45
Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:46
More wisdom on the way.
Welcome to the CXR channel. Our premier podcast for Talent Acquisition and Talent Management. listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting engaging and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:19
I’m still laughing I have to say that’s the kind of stuff you’re not going to find on any other recruiting podcast show. Look, we’re back. I’m excited to be live with you again today as we dive in after actually a few weeks off the grid. For those of you don’t know, we just spent 15 days in the desert of Burning Man. Spending that time off the grid and investing in communities learning more about community building a community and taking an extended amount of time off the grid no signal, which is something I’d recommend everybody do from time to time, if not regularly. Now as our regular listeners do know CareerXroads is a community of talent professionals from around the globe. We’ve been doing this for almost 30 years. Our member companies average hiring between 2000 200000 people the year each now. Just this last month, we’ve welcomed new talent and leadership teams from ICF GXO logistics Cummings Zoominfo Endeavor, Medtronic, and they joined the bustling community of now over 5000 recruiting professionals that meet live and virtually to talk about what keeps him up at night. Now this show streaming live on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and of course it CXR.works/podcast is where we talk with those community members and folks we believe they’d like to hear more about or more from sometimes, we dive into recruiting topics. Sometimes we drink a bottle of wine. And sometimes we catch up with people in our space that are just doing cool stuff like today. Now if you’re with us live, jump in the chat and drop a question to our guests and be part of the conversation. If you’re catching this after the fact that’s fine. But either way, be sure to like and subscribe and check out the full podcast archives for past shows and Future Show announcements at CXR.works/podcasts. Now we keep the show pretty short. In part we can do that because we don’t do sponsors. Nobody pays to be on the show. Nobody pays for any mentions these 20 minutes snackable conversations are just that quick catch ups thought sparks and maybe an occasional revelation. So with all of that, I’m happy to welcome back to the show Three Ears Media founder and CEO industry friend Twitter shaker upper and vanlife Road Warrior Kat Kibben. Kay Kay, welcome back to the show.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 4:26
Thanks for having me. I don’t know I’m doing cool stuff but you know being the plumber of recruiting, aka drop post writers. It’s pretty interesting.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:35
You say plumber of recruiting?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 4:37
That’s my new joke is like I don’t know how people decide to like be a plumber, right? You don’t grow up being like someday I’ll be a plumber. And I surely did not take that path to job postings either like you don’t have that moment of being like, I will be the person who is known for job posts, right?
Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:54
I will I will plumb the recruiting industry to the best Yeah. Hmm. So plumbing and recruiting to vocations that no one, no one in junior high said, that’s what I want to be on Career Day.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 5:07
I don’t know how we’ve gone like our conversations always go to the most random corners. But truly, it’s fascinating to me how you end up here and in a specialty like this.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:19
Yeah, well, I think our last time you were on the show, we had booze. I think we were drinking gin and talking pronouns, or so it was a gin.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 5:25
Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:28
It was Gin. Man, well, so. So. For those who don’t know you, why can’t Why don’t you give us sort of an escalator pitch of who is Kat Kevin? What do you do? What do you stand for? Just just give us a little pitch so we can get to know you a little bit. And we’re gonna jump right into this this thing called Van life.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 5:47
Absolutely. So if you’ve never heard of me, I’m actually the only Katrina Kibben in the world, spell my name, right. And you can read the LinkedIn bio effect. But my background was in marketing, in recruiting teams in technology in mark in the content world. And I spent a long time joking that I got my PhD in recruiting. I interviewed really smart people. And I wrote about it for many, many years. And all of that taught me a lot. But the biggest thing it taught me is that recruiters don’t know how to write. And I say that with love, but most of us don’t. And so I started a company called Three Ears Media to teach recruiters how to write. And the thing that recruiters write the most is job postings. And so I spent a lot of time researching and practicing to become an industry expert, build a whole team of them. And now I am running that company and this expertise from the road living in a van like you said,
Chris Hoyt, CXR 6:45
Okay, so I gotta tell you, I mentioned I mentioned in the intro with Jerry and I just got back 15 days of Burning Man, but we each had, I had my partner with me. And this was her first Burning Man, her first time to stay in an RV. Gerry had his own RV, we didn’t care V’s this year would have been awkward. But we got to RVs we were living the RV Life, which is probably not the same as the mainland. But I learned I learned a lot. And it’s the longest I’ve stayed in RV, I learned I learned a lot in my RV Life. I’m really anxious to hear about your learnings. Because mine was quick. I drove out, I parked it stayed there stayed there stayed there. And then I drove it to an RV park for a couple of nights and then turned it in. You, however, are all over the place. Like I don’t even it’s kind of a Carmen Sandiego thing like where’s Kat today?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 7:32
Yeah, I think I’ve been to 20 states in the last nine months. And I find that what you’re just hit on is one of the most difficult parts of Van life. It’s that constant transition, especially while you’re balancing a business and a team that needs attention with that movement and how far you can move on what days you can move. It’s it’s definitely a mental practice. But, you know, in the same way that Burning Man is a spiritual practice in a way that you’re escaping. For a moment, what we do when we escape on those journeys is that we learn how to live everyday life. And so that’s what I find is it’s a lot of the frustrations of your typical life that maybe happen once every six week, because you’re constantly moving. It’s happening every other day or every week that you’re missing some of those big frustration,
Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:27
Well talk to me about that. Because this is what’s really fascinating to me is that we were off. So where there was no balance we had we had zero balance, right? The only balance we needed was our own balance every once in a while. But other than that I was it. So you, you are balancing work and family and friends while you’re while you’re on the road visiting 20+ states like how does that work for you? I mean, what does a day in a van with Kat look like?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 8:55
Yeah, inevitably, it means we’re kind of running errands all the time, or it feels like I am. So typically my day. I’m really focused on work during the mornings and like seeking out Wi Fi that’s reliable in order to do that. So you might notice this is not a van. If it were if it’s a really nice, very large fan. This is not the van.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:20
It’s a huge van.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 9:22
The majority of our business and my job for this company is sales and training. And so I’m always on the phone. I’m always on live streams like this and we make sure that we have reliable Wi Fi for our customers. So even that’s part of the transition is moving out of the van into an Airbnb or a Marriott and moving back into it. And all of the planning that that takes it’s it’s interesting and I would say it is definitely mentally exhausting. I will not sit here and tell everyone that van life is the most exciting adventure in the world. It is life altering, but in the ways that break you first
Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:59
Yeah, well let’s so people have a reference point, let’s see if we can pull this up. Let’s throw this up. So this is a shot of you in the van. And I gotta tell you, oops, let me get rid of that. Here we go. So this is a shot of you in the van, I love this, but I have to, and it’s a beautiful looking van. But I gotta tell you, Kat, this is joy. If I’ve ever seen joy on a person, it’s it’s this in this van. It’s a gorgeous vehicle, by the way. But you just you’d look happy here.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 10:28
Yeah. And so these pictures are from October of last year, when I was taking quick van trips and kind of pressure testing myself. So I would go out for six days and just see what I was missing. Or what I’m a very AB test type A individual and people are very surprised to hear van life. And then the here CEO type A like that’s not part of a trifecta experience. But so I did test trips, times up to that, to see how it works. And so that is one of my first test trips, I brought a friend who’s a photographer with to take some pictures and capture that moment. And now thinking back, it’s such a reflection time of like, I had no idea.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:22
Are you saying if we sent a photographer with you today, it’d be very different big
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 11:28
The van would be a lot more. Take it as much more lived in now. There’s dirt everywhere. Because you can’t a man clean, I’ve learned there’s a lot of things that you have to mentally adjust for that you think you can control.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:46
So, So you’re pretty personable person. I’m very curious about any, any interactions along the way, the people that you get to talk to because you you’ve got a set of principles, right, and a set of values that are your own, and you own them. And I just fucking love that. But talk to me a little bit about interactions with folks all over the country, because we are a melting pot of I’m just gonna say a melting pot of crazy good way, bad way. Right. But we are there are some fun people out there. And there’s some not so fun people out there. But did any any lessons for you and your big takeaways that you learned on the on the road trips so far?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 12:25
Yeah, you know, I think I think there’s two answers. I think there’s the first answer of just realizing that everyone has a story. And I love that. I love that I can meet Fred in rural Montana, who decided to move from Pittsburgh. And now he lives as a camp host outside of Yellowstone, we ended up becoming very quick friends, because shortly after that, I drove my van into a fire pit, different story.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 12:59
Put a pin on that, coming back to that.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 13:03
But big picture, I think it has given me I almost feel emotional, same as a lot of perspective about my work. Because job postings are the story of someone’s life. And it’s very easy to sit in a beautiful home with your nice elevated desk and interview someone in rural Indiana about a manufacturing job and write all these details and ask these questions and think you’ve captured it. But then to drive through and see the community surrounding that factory, for example, to realize that these people can’t afford to live near their work, because of the changes in that economy. And you can feel it and you can see it and as much as I love data and research. And I consider myself an anthropologist at my core. Actually being in it is so it’s such a good reminder of why I actually do this.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 14:01
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I love that because you’re you are in the field, so to speak, right? And you’re starting to feel a little bit it was there was some convenient tie in to maybe some of your customers and you happen to be in those markets where they were struggling.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 14:15
Chris Hoyt, CXR 14:15
You can we can tie all of that to work.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 14:17
Oh, it’s it’s insane to me how often I ended up talking to someone and they’re like, We have a factory in this area. And I’m like funny enough Mexican food at the place down the road and I saw your billboards, right. I saw your signage that’s not going to work for you. Because I lived in this community for a week. And this is where people gather and it’s nowhere near where these conversations are happening or right. Because I’m also a very observant person. I love that moment of turning your phone off and just watching. That’s my favorite. I don’t need to talk to anybody. I just want to see and listen and listen to conversations. And truly I think this was plant so many seeds for how I think about recruitment marketing going forward, how I think about how we talk to each other, because the other side of this is those conversations with people, they told me about the work they did. You, your work is so fundamental to who we how we see ourselves, even in retirement, I’ve learned and most of the people I interact with are retired people, because most people don’t get to live in an RV park Tuesday or Thursday like I do. And I love learning what where they were, why they decided to end their career, and what they want to see now that work isn’t their priority.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:37
It is an interesting aspect of recruiting that I think has been suppressed, if not lost for a lot of people. And it may be part and due to the pandemic, right and everything that’s been going on the last number of years. But I remember when I was still a recruiter and a recruiting leader, and it was so important for the recruiter to go spend some time with the hiring manager, or go spend some time in those business units. And understand that I mean, one of my first one of the first things I was tasked with when I came on at PepsiCo years ago was you need to go see these other markets, you can’t be a global leader, you can influence these global markets if you don’t understand what’s happening in their space. And I’ll tell you Kat, while that was insanely valuable, valuable for me to go around the world and visit these markets and these people, I still don’t think I understood 1/10 of what what I feel like I should have known to be even more successful, like you just it’s hard to soak that up. And I feel like we’re in a we’re in a place where not a lot of people, to your point have the freedom or the liberty to be able to pick up and go spend a week at the factory or go spend a week in the field.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 16:47
Yeah, well, and I think there’s this dimension, when you’re living in a hotel, I know exactly what you’re talking about, right? I’ve been in that cmo job where they’re like, go to each office and, you know, see what it’s like and take great pictures. And come back and write the whatever website, that was my experience. And what happens is, you’re the guest, right, and a guest is going to be taken to everyone’s four favorite restaurants, you’re going to go and see this curated experience, where when you’re in a van, and you have to go grocery shopping, when you have to get gas when you need to make a quick repair to the van and you go to the AutoZone. And you stand in those aisles and listen to people talk about or stand in the parking lot while you’re working on your van and you listen to the construction workers talk about the projects that are coming up for them. Right, it is a completely different experience. It’s removing the curation and actually understanding how people live because that impacts how they work. How you live?
Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:52
Well raises an interesting question. So if we wanted to spread the wealth, right, the knowledge if we wanted to try to like we can’t scale that at organizations, we can’t put everybody in a van. Right for weeks. But it does raise the question. And I don’t know that there’s an answer, right? For the at least for this, but how could we sort of mirror that or, or replicate that level of understanding today, without without putting people in vans and putting them on the road?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 18:21
You know, I? My suggestion, this is not a pure answer. But a lot of times when I am talking to a hiring manager who doesn’t know who I am, or doesn’t know what I’m doing, I say, do you know why I’m here and they’re like, I really don’t like we’re gonna write a job posting. And the difference between what we do and what everyone else does is simply that we only try to tell the truth. We’re not going to make anything up. We’re not going to read historical documents, I just want you to tell me the truth.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 18:51
But what about the spin? I need my job have sizzle. I need it to be sexy. Come on.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 18:55
And I’m always like, what are you trying to sell? This is not a vacuum cleaner. Like we don’t just get to make a mark on the board. When you complete this transaction. You have to live with this person. Like let’s not sizzle, this. Let’s actually give the worst case scenario and see if you want to do that with me. Right. Like when we did the van The van is a perfect example. My very first trip I was going to speak at a conference in Vegas. And what I did is I booked a rental van out of Vegas. I drove up to Zion, and I drove back. Okay, yeah, I did it in July, in Nevada in a van. And if anyone doesn’t know what temperature it is, or what it might be like to be in a van with no air conditioning, yeah, I did it. I did the worst condition possible because I wanted to know, I could survive the worst. Not the best. I wasn’t going to New England in the fall to like go see leaves and deal with a nice cool breeze on the beach. Like no, I was gonna go to the hot hottest part of the desert and see if I could survive that because if I still wanted to do it after that, then I would move forward work with actually trying to live in a van. We have to handle the worst instead of selling the best.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:06
So yeah, so I think you know, the tie back to this is and we talked a little bit about this, I think before the show had kicked up, but really talking about opting out, right. So adjusting the funnel, we do want to attract people to get them in the in the flow in front of the hiring managers in front of the folks that are doing the work. But there’s also an element of like, these, we got warts to, like, we got a rough spots, you know, we got areas that need work and allowing people to either opt out of that or say, you know, eff it, I crushed I crushed his Zion, and 110 degrees in July, I can do this.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 20:40
I mean, that’s how I ended up in a van. Right. So I go and I live in the van, I come back and I speak at the conference, I think it was Sherm talent, have a great session, getting on my plane, I’m like, I’m gonna live in a van, I’m gonna do it. And no joke, my plane hits the ground in Denver, I open up my phone, and there’s a van for sale. And it is 20 minutes away from my house and no shit that van is sitting in the driveway right now.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 21:08
Are you I love that. Kat are you? Are you seeing any resistance more or less? Since sort of the your revelation and your stance on this with with folks who are hiring you to come in and talk a little bit more about the rough spots? Are you in one way? Or the other? Are they leaning either way? Or they say no, just sizzle, sizzle sizzle?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 21:27
You know, I always get pushback about the sizzle, everyone thinks we have to talk about the benefits and the perks and the benefits. And really, I want to know why people quit. And if you have an answer when I say that, like something pops in your head immediately it has to be here. And the reason is I’m I explain it just like marketing. It is a funnel in itself. Even the job posting itself should be written like a funnel. So you start at the top and you give them enough information to make a quick decision. Do this yes or no? Right? Your first three sentences that should give someone enough information to say yes or no, I want to yes or no I can the next right, and we’re moving and I want to give chances to opt out the whole way. That’s my landing pages. If you’re ever scrolling a page, and you see those button moments, those are the moment when you can opt out or go forward. And that’s what they’re trying to do is make you make a decision. And bad job postings. Don’t try to make anyone make a decision. They just tell a story like this is not fiction. This is supposed to be real.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:30
Yeah. Are you? Do you think you’re seeing as you know, the question, and then I’ve got then I got a whopper for you? Are you? Are you seeing a trend of people being more interested in fixing these job descriptions? Or is it just just dress a couple of these up? Because they’re important? Are you seeing more people say you know what? This has been low hanging fruit for decades? We’ve never taken it very seriously. Do them all?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 22:51
Yep. So I’m seeing almost a hybrid. There’s definitely a lot more interest. And interesting to me. In the last six months, I have heard more people from more people say, My CEO, or someone in our C suite is very invested in this change. Which is always a good thing, right? Because that means that there’s budget and energy behind it. And those are two things you need to do any project, then what’s happening is now they’re coming in, it’s a hybrid answer. So that yes, they’re saying please do these for me. But the other half of that is I need you to train my team to be able to do this because we can’t move forward in our recruiting organization. If we don’t upskill this team, because we both know what happens during a recession is the work starts to buy if you still have a job in a recession, let me add that caveat. The work starts to pile up in the hire start to go down, your headcount goes down and the work goes up that and every person that leaves somehow their job, like the budget for their pay, mysteriously disappears. And upskilling and specifically on job postings is helping relieve some of that work on the team because they’re actually getting a qualified pipeline.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:07
So Kat, what do you think the driving what do you think the driving sort of issue is behind seeing more CEOs involved in in something at the level? Because if you think about CEO, and you think about where job descriptions are in that food chain, it really not even on the radar for most CEOs, right? It’s a rounding error of shit they have to deal with, right? Certainly larger organizations, right. We’ve talked about a few large organizations where the CEO is saying talk to me about our JDS, what do you think’s driving that? Don’t stay quiet, we’re not going to talk about quiet quitting.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 24:37
I refuse to talk. I have principles like you said and talking about cliche. Over discussed topics is one is not Yeah. I think it’s motivated by two things. This is just my hypothesis. My first hypothesis is that when CEOs are reading about hiring they see a lot of quiet quitting headlines. But what they’re also seeing is how candidates speak. Alright, so because we are moving towards recessions, we’re seeing more layoffs quietly. It’s not hitting the the industry numbers, and I want to be really clear about that. But I am seeing a lot more in social feeds, people saying I lost my job, and they’re talking about bad job postings. And I think what’s happening is that’s an element that there’s so much of that so many of them so 99 million jobs posted last year. Okay. Think about it in marketing volume perspective. They know there’s a lot of job postings. So if you want to create an impact on hiring, pick something that there are a lot of inevitably, right. And it’s one of the variables they can actually control. So when they see a good one, they’re like, Oh, why can’t we do that?
Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:53
Interesting. Yeah, it’ll be it’ll be interesting to see if that trend picks up. It is something we have said for years. It’s just so easy to fix. I’ve done projects, I know several of my colleagues have done projects, several of our members have done projects never seem to do all of them seems to get stuck somewhere. And it’s not typically the larger the organization, not typically a cheap thing to do. But I think it can be done in phases. And we’ve never seen anybody really, really finished right? Really close the loop and feel good about it.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 26:18
Yeah, right now it’s a lot of tech. They’re 100% committed to get I’ve ever never had so many calls with CTOs. Talk to them about job postings and explain the bottom line impact.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:33
Well, it’s okay, so Kat. So we’ve talked, we talked about a bunch of stuff, we’re out about our 20 minute mark. So I want to ask you, if you were going to write a book, about your experience on the road, and the impact it’s had on work for you. What would the title of the book be?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 26:48
Well, considering I’m finishing a book right now, not about van life, actually, it’s about becoming a leader without traditional role models. In that, you know, those of us who grew up with parents who are hourly workers, and military veterans and didn’t work in corporate America, you’re actually an anomaly if you become a part of a C suite someday. And learning to become a leader is really hard when you don’t have traditional leaders. So that that’s very top of mine. But if I’m gonna write a book about van life, I would probably you you titled it earlier, we’re retiring. It’s like, well, now you know. Or, well, now you tell me, right? Because I think in Van life, it is a constant rediscovery of things that, you know inherently, absolute truths, and one of them is that you’ll always figure it out.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:45
I love that. So Kat, I’m gonna ask you the real question. Who gets the first signed copy?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 27:51
Oh…first signed copy of the book, this van life book or the book I’m working on?
Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:57
Let’s let’s do the van life book we like we will no spoilers until you’re back.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 28:02
I think I would give the first copy of my van life book to a 20 year old who has no idea what they want to do with their life. And I don’t know that 20 year old is but
Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:13
It’d be so hard to find one.
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 28:14
Yeah, right. Just chuck it out there.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:20
Yeah, just just chuck it out there. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, Kat, where do we where do we send folks want to learn a little bit more about what you’re doing and keep up with you and your van life?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 28:31
Yeah, so I jokingly said this at the beginning, but this is actually true that I am the only Katrina Kibben in the world. If you spell my name right, you’ll find me if you spell my name wrong, you’ll find the US House of Representatives priest, and you’ll know you’re in the very wrong place Katrina. I’m not kidding. But the best place to follow me as far as business is LinkedIn. The best place to follow all the van life activity is on Instagram, because that’s pretty good to see behind the scenes.
Chris Hoyt, CXR 29:00
Easy peasy. Look, Kat. I’m gonna put you in the greenroom hanging out. Don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. Is that alright?
Katrina Kibben, Three Ears Media 29:07
Chris Hoyt, CXR 29:07
All right. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time today. We really appreciate it. All right, we’re gonna do a couple of things really quickly. I’m just going to share this with you. We got a couple of things coming up. You can check this out at CXR.works/events. Super easy if you’re in Las Vegas this week. So are we we got a dinner going on. If you’re interested in attending, just let us know. We got a couple of things already hopping out there for HR tech this week. We also have a recruiting community Podcast coming up on pay transparency. That’s September 20. In addition to that, we’re just going through September, we have a talent operations meeting for our members that is going to be on the 21st and a lecture series. We do these monthly where we bring in an expert to talk about topics Our leaders have elected that are super important to their teams, and the leadership that they’re pushing forward. So we’re going to talk about women in leadership and that’s coming up on September 22. And then lastly, we’ve got to solutions spotlight with Maury Hannigan. She’s going to show us what’s going on at Sparc start. So I’m gonna leave it with that at CXR.works CXR.works/events for everything else and until then we’re gonna see you next week like subscribe let us know what you think. And we’ll see you next time thanks everybody
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