Chris Hoyt, CXR
I’m quiet, but you’re snapping these photos. So it’s kind of it was kind of interesting. She reminded me of her but

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 0:06
yeah, and smart. Yeah, she’s observing.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:08
Yeah. Yeah. Very well, are you? So you are going to HR tech, though?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 0:12
I’m going to HR tech. And yeah, like I said, it’s just, I just want one more month in between now and he wants to get ready. But as I’m excited, I think it’s fun to see people again and catch up with all the industry.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:27
Yeah. Is it for me? Or does it feel like in the last three weeks, all of a sudden off, switch got flipped? And it’s just raining event invitations. And like, you know, these agendas are loose agendas are coming out, but join us at this. Can you make it? Okay, it’s not just me, then.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 0:44
It’s all like three week notice. I think we were like going back and forth a little bit last week. Like, are you going here? Are you going here like and it’s just not enough time? I wish it was spread out a little bit where you know, you don’t if there’s something in August, I might go in August, but I can’t do everything in September.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:59
I can’t and as much as I love HR tech, like, I mean, my goodness, it’s the so Gerry and I are doing the burn again this year. Yeah. So we get back from that. And it’s right into events almost almost every other week. So it’s like we got an Amsterdam invite. We got a Paris invite. We’re going it’s just like, it’s like everybody waited till the last minute in their cramming them in for us to go.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 1:20
I know, Amsterdam. That’s fun. I didn’t get that invite. That sounds like a good one.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:24
Yeah, it should be well, I’m not going. I mean, I just can’t I can’t do it all. I’m just one person.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 1:28
It’s too much, right.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:30
And I might I might have. I might have become a little introverted. I might be a little more introverted.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 1:37
Oh, I don’t know about that. Really? Well. Yeah. I got a lot of people. I mean, it’s interesting, because I think that’s, you know, I think it could go both ways for people to write for a lot of people that are introverted, that it was just too much during the pandemic. A lot of people were like in New York and these tiny studios by themselves that are just going to kind of go out and change the way they approach people on extroverts. Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:03
I guess I got a little comfortable not going on somewhere all the time.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, are you ready to get this thing started?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 2:11
Yeah, let’s go. Okay. Let’s do it.

Announcer 2:14
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Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:43
All right, well, we are glad you’re here. So it’s good afternoon. How do you and hello to everybody, I’m Chris Hoyt, I’m host of the CXR recruiting community podcast. We are your weekly dose of mostly live interviews and catch ups with industry leaders, friends and personalities. You can catch us anywhere that you listen to your favorite podcasts and if you were jumping in live, and join the conversation by using the live chat on in that little tiny window on the side or underneath it on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, or even our website and CXR.work/podcast. Now, if you haven’t already, please go ahead and hit that subscribe and like button so that you are reminded of upcoming shows while simultaneously feeding our shows collective ego. We don’t make any money from the show. Nobody pays to be here that is why you will not hear any ads or hears promoting anything that is anything but what we think you should be paying attention to. So today, I am welcoming back our dear friend industry analyst and founder of Aptitude Research, Madeline Laurano, and she’s going to tell you what she’s paying attention to. So Madeline, welcome back to the show.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 3:46
Chris, thanks for having me here again.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:48
Yeah, it’s great to have you on so Madeline, for those maybe who who don’t know you as well as we do. Why don’t you give us the escalator pitch of who Madaline Laurano is and why we should be listening to what she has to say.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 4:00
Sure. And I don’t know what I’ll say for why anyone should be listening. But I am the founder of a company called Aptitude Research. I have been an analyst for quite some time for almost two decades. And follow HR Technology. My main focus is talent acquisition technology. So I do research, I do advisory and I try to stay on top of this crazy, crazy market. So that’s that’s pretty much it.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:26
Well, I think you do a pretty good job we like having you in here. Is it, it’s been a kind of a nutty couple of weeks. So we invite you on the show to just kind of talk about what you’ve been seeing couple things I want to talk about. I want to talk about Employer Branding. There’s this boom. AIM published a little report, I think was last week that talked a little bit about that had some really great points and I also want to talk about employees acquisition of Lever. You did a show with Lagunas and Sackett talking about this but What do you want to start with? I want to start with the Lever piece.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 5:03
Yeah, let’s start with the lever piece. So it’s minute since we’ve seen an ATS acquisition. I mean, we’ve Chris, we’ve been in this industry forever. So we’ve seen times where there have been, like so many ATSs that have been acquired, and that sort of like 2006 virtual edge was acquired restrooms acquired. Then we saw that again in 2011, with Twilio and SuccessFactors. And to see this now, big entity of employ, which was well, I didn’t know what it’s called employ, I thought it was just Joe Biden. And then I saw the press release, acquire Lever, which is another ATS now gives them three ATS systems, and many other different products CRMs and employee referral capabilities and all this stuff. It’s a lot, it’s a lot of capabilities that are not going to be fully integrated, they’re gonna all remain separate brands.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:57
That’s kind of it because it does give employee Lever gets their their platform for recruiting and sourcing and hiring. It’s an entire for those who don’t know, it’s it’s literally an entire CRM and ATS suite, right to your point. But employee, they’re kind of on a rampage, right? Because they bought, they bought Jazz HR. They acquired the what was the RPO of next thing RPO that just like in the last year or so. But what what really was kind of a kick in the teeth, I think for a lot of people and I think yourself, none of us sort of saw this coming.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 6:35
Yeah, I mean, I think typically what happens when there’s an acquisition is like we all get briefings or we get some kind of, you know, email even an hour before to say this is what’s happening, we’re going to jump on some type of analyst call or some influencer call and pick everybody heads up about what’s happening. But the press release, the press release didn’t include a lot of information. So it was very, it was like we acquired Lever and CMX. You know, see you next year for the next acquisition. You know, not a lot of information about what we’re doing with customers, what we’re doing for are we keeping the sales and marketing team out Lever, which is a fantastic team, are we you know, integrating this product will never be typically what happens with an ATS acquisition, like we’ve seen this before, is the better ATS becomes the ATS. So it’s like if you’ve got two or three ATS is you pick the best. And that’s what you sell. That’s doesn’t seem to be the case for this situation. Because Jazz is SMB and then Lever are so different. We just have no idea what’s going on.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:38
And I’m not saying collectively, like our little egos should all be hurt in that right? We should be upset. Didn’t anybody tell us and we cry, you know, but it is kind of an interesting, I wouldn’t say it stealthy, but it was kind of an interesting out of left field acquisition. So it will be it will be kind of interesting to see what, what comes from that.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 7:56
Yeah, and I think you know, I’m always interested in the product and how they’re going to integrate and kind of go to market with these different products. But I’m also always interested in the cultures especially like coming out of COVID. And, you know, just this empathy we all think about, it’s like, what, they’re two very different companies job is still figuring out employees still figuring it out, they’ve had a change in leadership in the past year, they were the past two years. And they’ve had some people leave, you know, their, their culture still not fully formed. And it took a big shift, I think with the change in leadership, and now you’ve got Lever, which is a really strong, inclusive culture, you know, great CEO, that is very tech focused and very connected with the tech community. So it’s going to be very interesting to see how these two cultures do they just remain completely separate, or is there a way to think about really retaining this talent?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:46
Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. So okay, so that’s Employ and Lever. It was one of the things I wanted to just touch on very quickly. I’ve got another one. But let me ask you like you, I think you’ve got a report that’s coming out soon. Is there are there any nuggets you want to tease us with give us something that you’re seeing in the space that we should check out and then maybe dig into that report?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 9:06
Sure, Um, so we’re publishing a report on onboarding this week on Thursday, and I’m doing a webinar with click boarding and then the report will be available to anyone attending and then next week, it’ll be available for everyone. But onboarding. I mean, it’s not a new topic. And it’s definitely not this new phenomenon. But it’s shocking to me having done research on it for a while how little companies spend on it, compared to ta tech and employee experience, like it’s almost double what companies will spend on ta tech or employee experience tech and what they spend on onboarding. And yet, we know that we found 86% of company said new hires make a decision to stay with their company in the first 90 days, and that 93% of managers know if somebody’s quality, higher, you know, this kind of holy grail that everyone wants to get after in the first 90 days. So it’s so important and it’s just not the priority.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:59
You You probably did on multiple channels. But I think I saw on Twitter where you had you had thrown up a screenshot of a report you did? Like, way, way back. Yeah, 15 year and how onboarding had not actually changed much. Since then do you? Do you uncover maybe why this is one because it seems to me this is another one of those things in recruiting that can be relatively low hanging fruit. And we just don’t mess with it.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 10:26
Yeah, and it’s something everyone can relate to, like people will buy this because we all know what onboarding is like. You don’t have to explain it. Like we’ve we’ve all had horrible New Hire experiences in our lives. And, you know, we know the impact of that. But when you look at the technology, like a lot of ATS systems have an onboarding module that many of them include for free. Like, it’s like, they want to win a deal. We’ll throw an onboarding buy our ATS. And it’s just a new hire portal. Nothing fancy, like you can do some video, you can, you know, have people fill out forms, its forms compliance, and we just haven’t moved beyond that. Within the ATS world. Fortunately, we’re now seeing new providers that do really cool things and provide a much better, you know, compliant and more positive experience.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:11
Why do you think well, you know, what I’ve noticed in my career with onboarding is like, nobody, nobody wants it. Nobody wants it

Nobody wants it.

Why does nobody want it?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 11:21
That’s it, Chris, that is 100%. It’s like, nobody wants to touch it, like TA. And I understand it like ta doesn’t necessarily want to be responsible for beyond, you know, when somebody gets their offer, you know, that’s more work. That’s kind of HR work. That’s employee experience work. And then learning and development, like for a lot of companies, l&d owns onboarding. But, you know, their impact on that is just to be able to provide training, like can we give new hires, the training development they need in the first 90 days, they’re not responsible for making sure forms are filled out making sure that managers are held accountable for somebody having a laptop on the first day. People just don’t want that responsibility. And it’s shocking, like people share their experience too, right? Like we see this on Facebook, on Instagram, whatever social channels you use. And we found in the research, 75% of new hires share their first day of work experience on their social channels. That’s a lot.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 12:20
Yeah, well, so it’s kind of interesting to me that nobody wants it because I’m a head of recruiting. I don’t want that. Like, once I have put the meat in the seat. I’m done. I want to be done at that point. So like, who is who’s taking it? Are you seeing a shift in that trend? Or is it still all hands off? Is it same thing?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 12:39
It’s definitely that’s a big issue, like the ownership is a huge issue. But TA’s more being held accountable for retention, I think I don’t know if you see this too, with a lot of your members. But a lot of conversations I’ve been having, it’s like pretentions becoming a team metric in some form. And onboarding is kind of like, again, that low hanging fruit that you can say, Well, okay, if we’re going to be responsible for attention, it’s going to be in a period of time. We’re not responsible for five years later, that’s not our responsibility.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:07
Oh, yeah. Well, we just did a recent show where we were with spotlight where we were talking about quality of hire, and how it’s is it’s this mystery metric that we’ve all, you know, you struggled to sort of measure and even define, and how there are certain levers at every company that adjust what a what a quality hire metric should look like. And so that’s always kind of interesting me that 90 days retention, or 60 days retention even gets included. I think it’s ridiculous that even gets included in quality of hire. And I wonder if anybody’s it just occurred to me, I wonder and if you’re if you’re in the live chat, we got some folks in there do like drop it in? Are you guys measuring quality fire? Are you guys tracking any of that? A queue of Ah, are you dealing with retention is that piece or onboarding? But like, it just blows my mind? Maybe somebody’s holding on to onboarding so that they can help their quality of hire metrics with retention in the 90 days.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 14:00
Yeah, I know. I know. It’s It’s so interesting. This is a side note, but I think you’ll get a kick out of this, I got this briefing request, like vendors and I know you get the same thing, like vendors reach out and say, we’re a new vendor in this space, and we want to brief you on our new product. And this one was for a company that cleans up individual social profiles for all, you know, whatever inappropriate content or you know, clean, scrubs, profiles, it scrubs your profile to make sure that everything that’s not appropriate is taken off and they’re selling this as an onboarding solution quality of hire solution.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 14:37
Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait. So post hire, they’ll go in and clean up your social profile.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 14:46
They’ll go and clean up the social profile,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 14:48
it seems so the company is doing some cya for the individuals that so let’s say you hire I think I just listened to. So did a thing with Adam the other day I think last week about sourcing on Reddit. And one of the conversation pieces came up said, Look, you just hired a Nazi. You sourced a Nazi on Reddit, what do you do? So it seems to me this is something the company would be doing to scrub. They’re like, we hired this guy. We know he’s a Nazi. But we don’t want anybody else to know he’s a Nazi, because he’s such a great tech tech guy. So we’re going to try to

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 15:21
Or we found out too late like we already made the offer. They accepted the offer. We found out too late. We know there’s going to be a lawsuit. We know we’re you know, you’d have to clean up these profiles. I obviously did not do the briefing. But I kind of wish I did. It’s good. Circle. Yeah. I was like, This is not an awkward an onboarding quality of hire solution. Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:42
Oh, this would be something I would imagine that you would want. You would want as the candidate to pay for to scrub your your profiles.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 15:50
So job seeker.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:52
Yes, the job seeker. So yeah. Okay, that’s interesting. And I think it’s a little shady. I don’t I think that’s how I feel. It’s a little shady.

Yep.

That’s something we need to talk about. Why? Why would the company exactly. Okay, so he’s in that email.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 16:11
I know, it’s like this. If this just this industry, who knows? Who knows? Every single day,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 16:17
I have a letter coming out today, I’m gonna, I’m gonna publish it on LinkedIn. And we’ll do it in our monthly newsletter. I think I mentioned it earlier when we were talking. But it’s, we interviewed a brand new leader who had come into position. So the member company that was with a CareerXroads already with us, but they had a leadership change. And we sat down to interview that leader. And it was his first time in coming into talent acquisition. So long history within talent management and HR, you know, wonderful, professional, really sharp, but said, man, I picked a really weird time to come in. It seems like things are kind of crazy right now. And all I could do was just say, look brother, it’s crazy every year. It’s always something. Right? I feel like no,

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 16:59
I feel bad for people that like we’ve been doing this for like two decades. Like, I feel bad for people that just come into the industry for the first time. And they’re like, I want to quick tutorial like, what’s what’s happening? It’s like, oh, there’s two. Don’t even bother. It’s gonna change tomorrow.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:15
Yeah, well, you’re either going through some sort of reorg restructuring, some sort of massive change management, implementation, pandemic social order, there’s something all the time it’s like the crazy girlfriend or boyfriend that you have, right, the crazy ex where there was always drama, that’s what recruiting, the recruiting industry is. It’s the it’s the friend of yours that has all the drama, all the all the time.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 17:41
And you have to be a stable one that can just still be friends with them through the chaos.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:46
Yeah. And you have to try not to let let your friend see you go. Oh, boy. Like, what? Every time Oh, boy. Here we go.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 17:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s a little pain. I never thought about this before. But being a TA requires or, like some PR skills.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 18:04
It does, like 100%. But um, so So I love talking to you, we get derailed all the time, the AIM group, fantastic resource, they published something last week that talked about this employer branding, boom, I mentioned it earlier, where this tight labor market is really driving a lot of employers to beef up their brands, both internally and externally. Are you seeing are you seeing any of this also, like in your world?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 18:33
Yeah, I think absolutely. And I think it started with the pandemic, like I think even before the labor shortage, you know, 2020 was this, like, we might not be hiring anybody, but everybody’s focused on us. And then 2021 was we’re hiring every everybody and anybody, we don’t care who they are. So I think during both situations, this like, employer branding, boom, was happening. The first, you know, driver of that was really to say, you know, we have empathy. We’re helping people we’re helping our employees are a great place to work. Even if things are crazy. We care about safety, we care about empathy and care about you. And then the second piece of it was we have to have a strong brand because we are really struggling to compete for talent.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 19:14
Yeah

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 19:15
I think, you know, I saw a lot with the campus recruiting piece, too. I hope that doesn’t derail us a little bit. But you know, with campus, it’s really hard with campus because you rely on events like in person events like that. If you’re a company that a college kid has never heard of early talent it’s never heard of, but you’re a cool company, and you’re an awesome company to work for you. The only way you’re gonna make a connection is if you go to an event you grab the early talent, give them a hug, pull them in your booth show, like the Cool Culture showing the benefits like get them psyched for working at your company. That’s really hard to do in a virtual event environment. Like it’s really hard if you’re no name brand or you’re not recognizable brand do that. So a lot of investment on the campus side of like being more creative about how to we invest in employer branding that’s going to be different than what we’ve done in the past with in person events. But I think it’s every aspect of it. You know, I think what I get a little bit concerned about with this kind of boom, is, it’s not often reality. And it’s, you know, just to be able to do one goal, which is to get talent interested or to convert talent. Yeah, early, and then you get the interview in the assessment. And that’s the reality check. It’s like, well, we actually like people to get here at 7am work in the office and stay till 7pm. That’s our culture. And you don’t you don’t find that an employer branding material.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:44
You certainly don’t seeis that.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 20:45
Yeah, you don’t see that. And then the other piece of it is, and I think this is true of like career sites in general, like there’s becoming the standard for career sites with branding to say, diversity, equity, and inclusion is so important, like, put tons of pictures up on your career site of a diverse workforce. And candidates are smart, they know the difference. They’re looking at these career sites that look like a really diverse, inclusive culture. And then they go to the executive team, and they go to the board of directors, and it’s all white men. And they’re putting two and two together, and it looks like a lie.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 21:21
Yeah, I think I don’t remember who we had on maybe six months ago. So we were talking about these, these marketing and branding strategies to to sort of empower the employer brand and say, look, we are a diverse culture, and we got into kind of an interesting discussion around is, is it from the branding team’s point of view, they feel like their hands are tied, because what’s the marketing and branding team going to do? They’re going to throw a picture of somebody of color or somebody in a wheelchair on the website. And that’s all they can do that doesn’t solve anything, right? Because to your point, candidates are smarter than that, they’re gonna go look it up, they’re gonna go do a little, you know, drilling down on a, you know, in the profile pages or on, you know, Glassdoor, that kind of thing, and they’re gonna see right through the bullshit.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 22:06
Right, exactly. Or they’ll see, you know, individuals with disability. And that’s a big, you know, topic, I think, that we don’t even talk about in candidate experience. But if you’re going to portray yourself one way on the career side, and then a candidate can see that your organization or even the, you know, even if the interview processes, we expect you to come and take two buses and get to our downtown office. That’s obviously not being inclusive.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:31
Yeah, that’s, it’s a rough way. I will tell you what’s kind of interesting. And sort of sort of related. We had on Andrew from Recruitonomics, and he’s

an analyst, industry analyst, right. brilliant guy just and delightful. I would I would have invited him to I think he’s on vacation this week. Everybody’s on vacation. But us, by the way, right now, I know. He did a really interesting layout. And right after the jobs report, which was just fantastic news. Right. But really interesting, because some of our members are talking about how difficult these tech jobs are. Right. And it’s only getting worse, or is it getting more difficult or? Gosh, I can’t tell if you had to guess I’m gonna put you on the spot. If you had to guess. Based on the recruitonomics. Like cost per application, right. What type of job? Right industry, right, do you think is the hardest to fill? Is it and I’ll give you some right? Yeah. Is it? Is it tech? Is it healthcare? Is it transportation? Is it services? Like what of all the industries what what would you think, was the one industry that didn’t stay level that spiked? Like 120%? For cost?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 23:44
It’s more difficult. Yeah. It’s so interesting. I mean, I think I mean, services has been kind of a topic that everyone’s been focused on it we see like businesses not opening. So like, my, like, that would be kind of my thought is to go there. I would say services or healthcare because I feel like, you know, healthcare is has been so challenging as well. And I know I’m wrong. I’m wrong.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:05
Yeah. Well, 100%, because that’s what I said. I was like, Well, look, I know services is going to be on fire. Like, yeah, we’re traveling again, people getting back into a lot of these jobs came restaurants were looking at booking and it was really interesting. Andrew did a really neat thing where he talked about the OpenTable booking rates, as one of the metrics, he can see how the restaurants are full, you know, that sort of thing. It was transportation, which really surprised me, it was driving hardest that is to hire the strike, get these drivers in and it’s 120% increase up on the cost per applicants kind of crazy.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 24:37
That’s crazy. That’s crazy. And there are so so many companies, so many brands that we don’t even know that have so many employees, I mean huge, like enterprise companies that are transportation companies. It was a huge industry. There was a conference you were probably there two zero years ago and there was somebody definitely what there there are some good greyhounds like I had a ton of ghosting from greyhound. And they said that the hardest positions they had to fill, and they pay over six figures for our plumbers because they can’t get plumbers on staff to fix the toilets in the Greyhound buses.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:17
Oh, interesting.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 25:18
So they want like they want full time employees that are plumbers that can do this. And they were not able to find that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:25
I would I would have never even imagined that there is a specialized plumber for bus bathrooms,

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 25:32
Bus bathrooms or any plumber that just wants to work for Greyhound. Yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:35
yeah. Well, I will tell you one of the most like when I was a recruiter, recruiter and carried Rex, I mean, you do learn a lot about weird jobs. You’ve never heard of it. It’s kind of an interesting, you know, chocolatiers and bas plumbers and things like that. Madeline. You mentioned you’ve got a report that’s coming out pretty soon. And I think also if my calendar is correct, you’ve got a webinar coming up. Also, can you want to talk a little bit about that, and people can get get some information? Maybe join you on that?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 26:03
Sure, absolutely. So the onboarding report, which we talked about today will be available on Thursday, on the Aptitude Research website. I’m doing a webinar with click boarding. And we’ll go through all the research, anyone that attends gets a, you know, early copy of the report. It’s a big topic. And you know, I’ve been revisiting reports from 2008 and 2005. So it’s been fun to look at how little has changed in onboarding. So that’s, that’s the next report available. And then we just did a report on text recruiting to with emissary, which I love

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:37
Oh yeah, that most definitely interesting. So So Matt, let me ask you, because we’re pretty we tried to keep these about 20 minutes. And it can be a little bit long. If you were gonna write a book about the state of things today. So sort of what we’ve talked about, we’ve been all over the map, obviously. But well, we’ve talked about what what would you title that book?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 26:57
So hard, I always blank on these questions. But no, I love them too. And I love people’s answers. But I am going to co author this book with you, Chris. And it’s going to be what you said earlier, which is This is so Crazy. Like this is so crazy, and it’s gonna stay it will never get I will never have to do updates to the book because it will remain crazy. It’s a crazy industry. It’s fun, but it’s

Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:25
More of a coffee table book. Maybe nothing terribly serious.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 27:28
But lots of pictures.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:30
We’ll get a forward read. You know can Charney right our forward. Yeah, our snackable, right. If he doesn’t go forward, that’d be good. Or he can write the backwards he can write the back side. We’ll just be sandwiched in the middle will be Matt and Tim sandwich. It’ll be awesome. All right. So Madeline, here’s the question you’re not expecting who gets the first signed copy of your book?

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 27:48
Oh, my gosh, Gerry. That’s easy. Definitely. Gerry

Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:52
will appreciate that. He’s in Montana this week on vacation with his lady, so I’m sure he’ll think he’ll get it. He’ll get a kick out of that.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 27:58
Awesome. All right. Well, thanks for having me on, Chris.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:02
Yeah, happy to have you. So I’m gonna push you back into the greenroom and just hang out there for a little bit and I’ll reconnect with you. But Madeline, as always, thank you so much for giving us your time today. Super, super grateful and glad glad you were able to make it.

Madeline Laurano, Aptitude Research 28:14
Thanks. Thanks for having me on, Chris.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:16
All right, good stuff, hang out for a little bit. Okay, I’m just gonna pull up really quickly want to show you because obviously, this is a live meeting, but we’ve got some stuff going on August 9. That’s today. This afternoon. If you’re a member, you can join us with Charlie Franklin. We’re going to do a solutions spotlight on Compa going to be super fun. We are also upcoming. We’ve got our campus recruiting meeting, that recruiting meeting was so crazy with our members, they asked for a part two so we’re putting that together. That’s coming up August 10. And then are you in Denver because I’m going to be in Denver and I’m going to be hosting a dinner so if you’re in Denver and you want to come have dinner with me, let me know. We’ve got about 20 folks that we’re bringing into an awfully nice restaurant. I got about two seats left and I have been known to pair a nice wine with a little bit of food so if you want to do that, just give me a ping and let me know if you’re in the Denver area. I’d really like to see you with that. I’m going to tell everybody we will see you next week on the show take care be strong

Announcer 29:13
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