S5 E21 | CXR Podcast: Catching up with HR.com’s Matt Charney

Matt Charney has had a voice in the talent acquisition industry for years. Hoyt catches up with him now that he's had a few months under his belt as the TA Community Leader for HR.com.

S5 E21 | CXR Podcast: Catching up with HR.com’s Matt Charney

Matt Charney has had a voice in the talent acquisition industry for years. Hoyt catches up with him now that he's had a few months under his belt as the TA Community Leader for HR.com.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 
And that because I have to say we had, we had a TA leader that was talking to us, not one of our members, so T leader at an organization weren’t quite sure if they were fit or not. So we’re kind of sitting on it, but they do all their leadership meetings, he said in VR, yeah. And so I you can credit them with me going out and buying some VR of the set of VR and tried to connect with another team leader, where we, you know, you do the, you do the whiteboard and 3d, so

Matt Charney, HR.com 0:28

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:31
Not productive, it was not productive for us.

Matt Charney, HR.com 0:34
And then I’m not necessarily disagreeing with that. I think that the so I’m a VR nerd. Let’s go ahead and whine back. So

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:42
I’m alert. I’m an aspiring nerd, I’m right behind you. I’m trying to learn VR. Well, so in

Matt Charney, HR.com 0:46
2012, actually helped with the Kickstarter that became Oculus. And so then I got the potassium in 2014. And then Facebook, I want to say it was 2015. I ended up buying Oculus for what it was a billion dollars at the time. And like, I know that the traditional press and everything was saying like, Okay, why did they overpay so much for Oculus, and the minute you try it on in my mind, and this was back when it wasn’t very good. It was like a roller coaster simulator was the most impressive. I got it immediately. And I think that the potential for where it’s going is far in advance. But there’s so many companies starting to just kind of lay the foundation now, I do you think that once the hardware becomes more mainstream, and there becomes a little bit more familiarity with how to manipulate around there, because there is a little bit of work, particularly on the new Oculus because you got two handsets, and they do different things. I think that it is an ideal use case for a lot of HR situations, I’m gonna go ahead and say training may not end up being one of them. But when it comes to situational assessments, and when it comes to like interviews, I think that there’s a lot of promise and at least the betas I’ve seen.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:02
I would agree, I think there’s a tremendous amount of potential but I also think it’s got to become less cumbersome. It’s got it’s, you’re putting a tank on your head, for the most part with this thing. And it’s heavy and it’s but but from what I’ve seen, if you’re a super nerd on this, you’ll get the I’ve started to see some stuff come up where you are in your real environment.

Matt Charney, HR.com 2:24

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:25
And it’s augmenting that so like you can, you can drill a hole into your living room floor and jump into that and then you’re in a whole nother world. And then eventually you climb back out and you’ve never left this 10 foot living room, but it’s just your mind just goes crazy.

Matt Charney, HR.com 2:40
Ya know, and that’s the AR is sort of, I would say the stepping point between the two but Apple is coming out with their new AR headset I believe they said September and I think that’s going to push an option up. Oculus already has that capability, obviously but it’s interesting because you remember Leia? Yeah, like it honestly the technology is the exact same. And so my question is because it’s so cool. How come it hasn’t gotten adoption yet? And that’s the thing I can’t really understand. Other than maybe

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:13
it’s a pain in the ass to use that’s why

Matt Charney, HR.com 3:15
it is a pain in the ass to use but it’s also really fun is what I say you can sit courtside for NBA games because they stream those so it’s like you know being a Jack Nicholson seats for the Lakers. What

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:25
are we talking about? Yeah, yeah, huge. I could I could see that. Yeah, sport, but I can see it for training. But I think it’s got a little ways to go.

Matt Charney, HR.com 3:32
Yeah, it doesn’t always go.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:34
Are you? Are you ready to jump in?

Matt Charney, HR.com 3:35
Let’s do. All right, here we go.

Announcer 3:39
Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management. Listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging and retaining the best talent, we’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:08
Every time, every time, every time I say we’re gonna get rid of that music and then I just find myself boppin to it look, welcome to another edition of CX our community podcast where we bring industry leaders and friends together to kind of talk about what’s going on in the talent and recruiting space and where we sometimes just sit down for a few to connect and catch up with you the watcher and listener in the peanut gallery. So if you happen to dial in live today, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, or the website at CXR.works/podcast and if you do see a chat window, please use it to say hello, drop in your profile link ask us a question or just drop in a comment that does go a long way. Sort of towards the conversation and frankly low snow this thing’s even working. Today I am pleased to introduce to you a friend and industry dude that goes way back. Probably yeah for probably one of the most talented writers and just insightful guys clearly in our space and he’s fun to talk with. I want to tell everybody just give a little Hello, welcome to Matt Charney. Matt, how are you?

Matt Charney, HR.com 5:11
I am doing awesome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:15
I’m glad to have you here. We also we’re gonna we’re gonna do double trouble.. look who just popped into the green room Mr. Crispin. Hello, Gerry.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:25

Matt Charney, HR.com 5:28
Gerry, good to see you.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:30
Matt. It’s great to see you anytime.

Matt Charney, HR.com 5:33
I wish. I wish it was more frequently. But c’est la vie. It’s good to have you dialed in and now I feel like I’m on Chris and I were just talking but to the Godfather is soul.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:42
I was I was listening in the backstage took me a while to get here. I didn’t know my password.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:49
Happens happens to the best of us of it’s the best was Matt for the for those who maybe don’t know you. Why don’t you give us kind of an escalator pitch of sort of who who is Matt Charney.

Matt Charney, HR.com 6:02
Matt Charney is somebody who refers to them as elevator pitches, which is what I assume you wanted? Um, so yeah, my name is Matt Charney and I am the talent acquisition community leader HR.com, which is a big title that basically means that I oversee all talent acquisition related events, content and community. And anything auxilary touching that for hr.com. People are familiar with that. Probably our it’s even older than I am. And it is about 2 million members, the largest clearing site for certification for HR professionals in the world. And so prior to that, you know, I’ve been essentially in the same role, but with different people paying for my paycheck for you know, well over a decade now. Essentially, just covering the talent acquisition space, and working in marketing leadership roles, and publishing about the exact same topics we continue to talk about. So you know, 10 years, 10 years in that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:05
I would say so, Matt, I think we met in probably 2009.

Matt Charney, HR.com 7:10
I can tell you exactly when we met was in Boston at Recruit Fest.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:13
Yeah. So 2010 I was so close. So 2010 You were still at Monster you were the social media engagement manager.

Matt Charney, HR.com 7:22
You’re either looking at my LinkedIn profile. I’m impressed. But yes, that’s correct.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:25
Okay, so you’ve been, you’ve been a director of marketing, you have been the chief content officer, you have been a strategy leader and executive editor. But look, I know you started to get into it Matt But what the hell is a TA practice? leader@hr.com?

Matt Charney, HR.com 7:42
Right. So HR.coms like interesting in the fact that, you know, Sherm is kind of coming around, I don’t want to like it’s weird, but essentially, HR and recruiting, I think we can agree you’re very different audiences, both in interest, and I would say persona, to call on my marketing titles. And essentially, what is, you know, entity that’s mostly about professional training, development, and making sure that people are equipped to have the skills to succeed? The owner, Deb McGrath, who is watching this right now, I’m sure. So hi Deb, she has eyes.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:20
There are seven watchers. So we can say hi to Deb, and the six others.

Matt Charney, HR.com 8:25
Six watchers, those are the committed people, right. So anyway, Deb, decided that, you know, she wanted to increase the amount of talent acquisition content, as well, as you know, people in the space, obviously, there’s a big demand from the vendor side to kind of pick up the TA stuff. And so you know, I came in so my kind of recurrent responsibilities are. And I’ve been to know this before I joined and I’ve been an HR.com member for 10 years, we put out a magazine called TA Excellence every single month. And so I’m responsible for editing and helping to compile that. We do state of the industry reports, and I generally have four of those hanging out at any one point in time. So right now I’m finishing one on high volume and hourly recruiting. And those are informed by advisory boards, which I run. So in that particular case, we have kind of half vendors. So you know, like the CEO of Fountain and the CEO of Paradox. On the other side, we have like the person who runs talent acquisition for Whole Foods, one who runs it for Walmart. So sort of like you except vendors are invited for the dialogue. We put together a survey completed, send it out, and then we turned it into white paper infographic and a virtual event. We also are starting to watch live events. So we have our next one coming up in Nashville in October.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:51
Oh, love that. So so let’s talk about let’s come back to that because I want to talk about events. You’ve got a podcast, I think or webinar coming up with Danny soon. I want to Want to make sure we’ve mentioned that and I think that’s going to definitely be worth worth jumping on for folks. But like you doing Matt sounds like and consuming lots of research in our space, you’re networking with Sneeze, you building I think you said you’re building advisory boards you are facilitating you’re talking shop. So. So if we were going to ask you in today’s snackable, 20 minutes segment or so, what do you think ta leaders, specifically talent acquisition leaders, we think they should sort of be paying attention to right now.

Matt Charney, HR.com 10:30
The economy a little while they generally tend not to, it’s a lagging indicator to be honest with you, which is why you have hired reasons and other things because of lack of forward planning. But look, I think that we’re still in a place in talent acquisition, where we’re starting to are we continue to be overly occupied with making it complex, and adding complexity. So you know, technology, headcount and specialization and all that sort of thing. And we really are focusing a tremendous amount on recruiter training and capability. And so that, to me, is what I think the the leading departments, interestingly enough, have focused on, and didn’t necessarily have the amount of turnover that you saw writ large within the sector, the companies that really have invested in training, recruiting enablement, but what’s going to inevitably happen is another hiring slowdown, you’re going to have a huge wave of professionals drop off, then we have to rehire. And then we have to train again, as opposed to building up capabilities within the function. Things like talent planning, career development, coaching, even, you know, being able to do some of the outplacement activities that will generally go third party. So I think that we’re at a really good inflection point is we have all these people who’ve entered the profession, the Geno recruiting was one of the I believe it was, you know, after take your health care and big data sort of jobs was was top in terms of career growth over a q1, I think you have a real chance to take away the platform stuff, take away the highly abstract theoretical conversations you’d like to have, and really like focus on the basics and build capability within the function of people who are looking at this not as a stepping stone or some existential crisis like I did, but actually as a career. And I think that training and building up those internal capabilities are really important, because even if, you know, my company is not hiring or retracting. I think that the skills good talent acquisition professionals can continue to build up both retention as well as business of performance.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 12:39
So it’s interesting that you say that, because it seems to me that what Gerry and I have seen animals speak for you, Gerry, obviously, chime in. But what I think we’ve seen in the last especially six months, and it’s not that we didn’t say it two and a half years ago, but especially in the last six months, we’ve heard a lot of leaders saying, I have to get back to the basics.

Matt Charney, HR.com 12:57

Chris Hoyt, CXR 12:58
I’ve got to go back to blocking and tackling. I’ve got to start having, I got to build those blocks, those those skills, those basic recruiting skills back. And I’ve got to stop chasing, which is really funny, because on the front end of the show, we’re talking about a shiny bobble right with this VR games, but I got to sit down and start doing recruiting again.

Matt Charney, HR.com 13:16
Yeah, 100%. And I have done a lot of employer training and getting a lot of requests than it used to be for things like Khan consulting about which RPA like so chatbot or, you know, AI solution they should by now, it’s as simple as can you tell my recruiters how to stop getting ghosted? And…

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:41
That’s like, not even one on one that’s like, that’s some pretty that’s prereq that’s requirements you got to do for you to get into the class.

Matt Charney, HR.com 13:47
Right. But when you turn over your entire recruiting department, and then you know, outline economic event, I feel like that’s gonna be an inevitability. And so I really hope that rather than continuing to cycle on with the economy, the we become a little bit more static, and you know, people stick around so that we can get a little bit more accelerated, then how do I negotiate an offer?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 14:09
So that if, in the next week, next month or year, if we do have a slowdown, you use the term slowdown?

Matt Charney, HR.com 14:19

Gerry Crispin, CXR 14:19
And I I think the spigot can goes on and off. I don’t think it really slows down.

Matt Charney, HR.com 14:24
Well, no, I think you’re right. I think that the worker types change. And I think that the in the hot industry has changed. So what’s obviously triggering everyone talking, oh, my gosh, we’re slowing down as tech, which is not a huge part of the GDP if you look at it, in terms of both percentage and jobs. So yeah, I think there always will be the demand. But to that point would be outlier of high volume hourly positions, which is a whole other widgetized world because it’s more of a supply chain function than a TA function, honestly. But with that exception, I think that the skills you fundamentally need to be a recruiter or cross transferable. And so that’s why I think, you know, I’ve always loved working for RPOS, because they kind of have hedged against that if one client slows down, you can kind of move on to another. And so I think that as that total talent picture continues to solidify, because whereas that was very marketing, like, here’s the future, it has come to pass, where you know, the, where you work and your employment type doesn’t really so much matter, as it used to. And so I think that being able to combine, let’s say, the agency recruiting skill of being able to play in project workers quickly, combining that with like the in house functionality, if you just kind of look at both the MSD and and in house world, they’re coming together really quickly. And so yes, I do always think that there’ll be a demand. And I think that that will be offset on the tech side, probably by the platform plays which continue to grow.

Cool. Interesting. Well look, Matt, you’re on the road, Gerry just got back from unleash, I did not, I’m in the middle of migrate, like as, as you can probably see, my office is a mess. So I’m still in the middle of being a homeowner and a mover again, so I’m not on the road yet. So I’ve got FOMO between the two of you, like literally between the two of you. You’re both on the road, what what am I missing out there? If I if I haven’t hit the road yet and jumped back into the event scene yet? What’s going on out there? What what do I have FOMO about?

Well, I mean, Gerry was unleashed last week. So he could probably answer that. Because I think that that that’s been a really big of that comparative to what we’ve seen. But for me, even the most pedestrian of events, which is to say like I went to IO , something that I would never have gotten. Yeah, right, Gerry, which, by the way, very, very interesting, because they’re talking about the exact same issues, but at a completely different level.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 16:51
All PhDs so they’re going to take out a very unusual articulation of that.

Matt Charney, HR.com 16:57
It’s the only time I’ve ever like sat there and known the subject and it just been like, over my head. What I thought was particularly interesting is they presented scientific papers, and most of them were people getting in front of an audience, a huge audience, going through their methodology that admitting it didn’t work, and then sitting back down. I’m like, that is the antithesis of what we consider thought leadership, right. But even at an event like that, I think that the material, probably pretty consistent. If I went to the megatrends section would have been identical to what you would have seen it probably and Unleash, or Sherm, or name or show …

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:31
Just with more charts.

Matt Charney, HR.com 17:32
Just with more charts and more map, like scenario mapping, which is 52 page handout some a lot of cases, I have one I’ve been writing on the margins of ever since. But one of the things that I just think you do see is this overlap of specializations. Because almost all the content for this IO conference was TA and I start seeing ta conferences starting to have a lot more generalist talent management stuff, when you look at like mobility, diversity, certainly. And so I do see this interesting bleeding through but but I think most importantly, is I don’t learn anything. And again, apologies, the this being the medium. I don’t learn all that much when I’m not able to, like interact, ask follow up questions, have those collisions, you know, in the hallways, or outside, or at Gerry’s infamous dinners. So for me, like it’s less about content, it’s less about like, Oh, I’m staying on the cutting edge. And it’s just now this point more about getting some of that face to face time and having informal conversations, which is something I desperately miss, because no ta leader is ever going to tell me what’s actually happening in a setting like this, you know what I mean?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 18:47
That nuance that, whether it be a dinner, or just a side conversation, the nuance of what you’re hearing, I think is really where the true learning is. And if I go to a session, what I end up learning is from the audience, I can watch the audience and see how they’re responding to the content that’s being curated by the person on stage. And that tells me huge amount of whether or not there’s a whole new group of people who have to be taught this thing over and over and over again, or whether whether there’s some ability to absorb more complex ways of looking at things I you know,

Matt Charney, HR.com 19:31
And then we have the push, which is how many people stand up with an iPad and take a picture of the slide, right? I couldn’t really go either direction.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 19:38
Oh, my God, I forgot about those people.

Matt Charney, HR.com 19:44
But I was just saying the other thing that I miss obviously is hashtag trolling. But yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 19:50
Back channel chatter. Yep. Yeah, back back row and the conference. You know, what I do miss is kind of, you know, about if you’ve been doing it long enough, I think in your conferences. session, I think in the first seven minutes, maybe you can decide if you’re gonna hang out for the rest of the session. You know, and when you do make it to the end of the session, it’s interesting to see if it resonated by how many people get up and go up to talk to the speaker. Like, is there a quick line to say, you just shook my world? Or how do I get more of this? Or you know, that kind of thing? And I do miss that. I don’t know barometer is the right word. But I do sort of miss that gauge of engagement.

Matt Charney, HR.com 20:27
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think also the gauge of engagement being how many people actually take advantage of the follow up with us, kind of kind of slides and certainly as a speaker, that’s my gauge as to whether material hits or not, is do people take advantage of the five minute q&a in which my contact information is splashed across the page?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:47
Yeah, it’s different, virtually. It’s different

Matt Charney, HR.com 20:49
It sure is.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:50
Okay, so we’re coming up on time, but I want to ask you, you’ve got an upcoming chat. I think with Danny Monahan, for those who don’t know, she is the VP of TA at Google Cloud. Now she’s former Uber Uber,

Matt Charney, HR.com 21:01
We actually already had that, by the way. So

Chris Hoyt, CXR 21:03
I thought it was coming up,

Matt Charney, HR.com 21:04
no that recordings done. And then I just had one with the head of talent acquisition team Deep, will be happy to bunch more coming up in various events, but right now, I believe Danny will be one of our keynote speakers at the Inspire event in Nashville, which is our next in person. But yeah, what I would say is, if you A. want certification credits, but more importantly, wanted to be a content, we do at least four webinars a week or virtual events, we also have a huge training library. And between that, I also get to do a lot of recordings and interviews with ta leaders, so much like you, but I’m much more of the content less facilitated conversation side. I’m having those conversations all the time. And yes, Danny just started at Google. And as it turns out, they have pretty tight brand protections. So if we mentioned this against those, I apologize.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:00
Here, I’m gonna throw a throw the HR.com link, I don’t know that the label needs a link, but the hr.com like I put it in the chat. We’ve got some folks in there. But good. So sorry, I missed it. I thought it was actually upcoming because she was going to talk about the tech. Is there a way if I go out to HR.com? Is there a way that I can actually watch the recorded webinar map?

Matt Charney, HR.com 22:17
There there is and so if you go to the the virtual events section, you’ll be able to find archive for all of our recordings. And you know, there’s a lot of good stuff on there, that even I have missed coming into the company. So I’d say my first two months were spent looking at archived recordings just because I didn’t know they were there.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 22:36
Other people wouldn’t know that Matt’s key connection to Danielle is is from Cuba.

Matt Charney, HR.com 22:43
Actually, Gerry, you want to hear much more interesting story about my connection with Danielle?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:47
Well, yes, we do. Okay,

Matt Charney, HR.com 22:48
So back when I was a recruiter and one of the few people who was doing what we now call social recruiting and employer branding at the time was me being lazy and that we’d had to use Google. I’m Michael Monahan, her son, contacted me and said in random kid, but I happen to call him back and goes, can you tell me how SEO for jobs works? And I said, I don’t know. But here’s what I think. And as a result, he built a company like a startup. That was among the first to do that. And through that, I actually met Danielle, so that was that was that was round number two.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 23:25
I love it.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 23:28
Fantastic. Well, okay, so Matt, let me ask you, we got a new question. We’ve been asking folks, before we wrap up the podcast. If you published a book today about what you’re seeing in our space today, what would the title of that book be?

Matt Charney, HR.com 23:45
Oh, man, I’m a copywriter. So this is going to be a hard thing to improv because I want to screw with the words, I think it would be called How Hiring Works. Because I think that there’s this weird disconnect, I read a lot of consumer media around the current job and career space, obviously. And the disconnect between what people who aren’t on the inside perceive is what goes on behind Oz’s curtain. And what we know happens is so huge. And I don’t know why there’s so much mystery around it. But at the same time, I really do think that fundamentally, the average person does not have an understanding of how the fundamentals of getting a job work in today’s economy.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 24:29
How Hiring Really Works. I’d like to write a chapter that

Matt Charney, HR.com 24:38

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:38
I’ll do the forward. Can I do the foreword?

Matt Charney, HR.com 24:41
Capelli has already offered to but you get the afterwards.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:45
Okay, so the big question becomes Matt, who gets the first signed copy, and what do you write in it?

Matt Charney, HR.com 24:55
Honestly, I think Eric Weingarten would have to get the first sign copy.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:00

Matt Charney, HR.com 25:01
I can’t think of anyone who has been as transformative of my understanding of that topic or my career, even though obviously, we’re not as close in touch. I still consider him to probably be my primary mentor in terms of understanding the space and how to treat both recruiters and candidates.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 25:18
How cool is that? That’s really interesting.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:21
Yeah, very nice. Yeah, we should probably get him on the show. He’s still in the space. He’s still around.

Matt Charney, HR.com 25:26
He still does stuff.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:28
There’s no crazy conferences.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 25:30
He’s alive. That’s all the counts.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:33
I gotta tell you Matt, you got people telling you to write the book. It’s coming in the chat PRAISE.

Matt Charney, HR.com 25:39
All right. Well, I tell you what, as soon as I get through this white paper that was due on Friday. We’ll start it on that. But it is something that I’ve already gotten a publisher to agree to do and written the outline and everything. So it’s just a matter of time.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 25:52
Oh, I love that. That’s fantastic. Well, Matt, I want to thank you so much for giving us some time. And joining us, Jerry. Always Gerry and I always love to catch up with you. So I’m glad you were actually able to make it today.

Matt Charney, HR.com 26:02
Yeah, no, thank you for having me. And it was a good Kickstart to the week.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:05
Yeah, good stuff. Well hang out in the green room for a minute. Gerry and I are gonna circle back to you. I just want to share with everybody else, what’s next. All right, so lately this week, Gerry and I have invited Terra Doyle. She’s the head of talent at Roche to join us for a special broadcast. It’s called a CXR Uncorked that is, you haven’t listened to those before that and this one you’re going to be able to watch. It’s where we sit down each of us with a bottle of wine remotely, and just talk. It’s sort of like Drunk History, but for recruiting. So don’t miss that. That’s this Friday afternoon. It’s around drive time. If you’re still driving, I don’t know. But you can also grab it later the recording out there at CXR. CXR.works/podcast on next week. Also, we’re bringing in one of our favorites, Madeline Laurano. She is the founder and CEO of aptitude research, she is going to talk with us about T A tech trends within the world of recruiting. And on June 9, I am happy to welcome we mentioned it before he’s coming up Ravi Tandra. He is the CEO and founder of Proven Base. And he’s going to conduct what we call a solutions spotlight demo. That is a open conversation with some of our members. And lastly, June 15. We’re actually conducting our q2 EMEA community meeting. And that is a great opportunity for members to strengthen their networks, and discuss regional challenges and key resources within those markets. All of this and more obviously at CXR.works/events. And if you haven’t figured it out yet, we don’t get paid to do these. We don’t have any sponsors or ads, nobody gets paid to sort of be part of the show. But what does help us along is that if you haven’t already, please be sure to hit that Subscribe and Share button on your favorite streaming service. We’re on nearly all of them as well as regularly here on LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube and Facebook. And that just lets us know you’re enjoying the content. And then we should keep plugging along and plug along we do so until next week, have a wonderful week everybody and we will absolutely 100% See you next time. Take care.

Announcer 27:57
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