Chris Hoyt
Ah, how was Thanksgiving?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 0:04
Awesome. A lot of great food. I had the entire family over. Can’t complain. No fighting. That’s good. That’s no drama.

Chris Hoyt 0:14
Yeah, yeah, no drama. Well, it’s a very different than an election year Thanksgiving. That was that was for most of us so many years ago. Yeah. And Gerry, how about you?

Gerry Crispin 0:24
Well, you know, Thanksgivings are all the same. I probably had Thanksgiving the same room 65 Different times over the course.

Chris Hoyt 0:35
I think that’s incredible.

Gerry Crispin 0:36
It’s my, my grandfather’s house, obviously became my parents house. And now it’s my house, but my daughter was buying it from me. So there’s that and then the day after Thanksgiving. I invite all of my cousins over to bring and they have to bring an appetite leftover appetizer and dessert. And or dessert. That’s nice. And, and about 100 people show up in a modest size house that obviously is not designed to be able to accommodate that many people. So it’s it’s a real, very interesting set of pictures.

Chris Hoyt 1:21
Cozy.

Gerry Crispin 1:21
If you can imagine.

Chris Hoyt 1:22
Cozy. Yeah, yeah. That’s nice. Well, I This is funny. We were laughing about this a little earlier. I think that the the spam bots spam accounts on on LinkedIn that I get in my messenger all the time they have usually it’s about RPO’s or it’s about you know, we can help a staffing agency like yours. We’re not a staffing agency, obviously. But now, they clearly know that I’m, I’m, you know, I’ve put some weight on since the pandemic because now I’m getting these fitness people who want to help me get back in shape. And it’s like we can we can shape you up and help you lose some weight. And it’s kind of can they see me? I’m like, can you see me through this thing? It’s it’s very upsetting. I feel, I feel a little seen.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 2:05
Do you guys partake in the

Gerry Crispin 2:07
Maybe their just, some inference.

Chris Hoyt 2:10
Can you see my belly when I’m when I’m just showing that like, I don’t have pants on? You can’t tell but but to be able, you know, it’s not okay.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 2:18
Do you guys partake in Good Friday shopping? I do not. I don’t go anywhere close.

Chris Hoyt 2:26
I don’t touch that stuff. I just can’t do it.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 2:31
Oh, crazy. People are crazy. They’ll love doing that. They’ll sit outside in the cold and waking. It’s just nuts.

Chris Hoyt 2:38
I respect the companies that shut that down and then deal with it in a different way. Don’t make any employees be there three in the morning. And you know, I have a whole level of respect to that. But I come out of retail. So retail background I used to hate that stuff. Ah, okay. Well, are we are we ready to have a little chat? We have different we have more important things to talk about then how somehow the spammers can see my belly through my LinkedIn profile. Are we ready to get going? Ready? Ready, ready. All right, let’s do it.

CXR Announcer 3:08
Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for talent acquisition and Talent Management. listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting engaging and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt 3:37
Right, everybody, welcome to another episode of the recruiting community podcast. I am excited to be your host today. A couple of reminders before bringing in my co host. We are streaming on on the YouTube, the Facebook, the X, Twitter, whatever that is. And the LinkedIn if there’s a chat window there, we encourage you to just drop a question in there, drop a hello in there, we’ll do our best to respond to those even if you’re watching this. After it broadcasts, we do come back to those if a comment is added. And we see that so we’ll say hello to you. And if you’ve got a question for our guest today, which we’re pretty excited to bring to you. We can we can most certainly make sure that that question makes it over to I’m going to go ahead and I didn’t mention my name. I am Rocky Balboa today and I’m going to bring in my partner in crime Apollo Creed. Apollo, how’re you doing today?

Gerry Crispin 4:24
You betcha. I’m doing really well. Did I win?

Chris Hoyt 4:27
Well, you know, we’re in the ring and we’re boxing the bullshit out of the recruiting industry. That’s I feel like that maybe that’s what we’re doing.

Gerry Crispin 4:35
Okay, that was good.

Chris Hoyt 4:36
We’re probably not doing that. But we are having a good time. chit chatting about the stuff that goes on in this space. Yeah. It’s a labor of love will remind everybody this podcast so there’s no ad dollars that come from this. It’s not a revenue piece for us. We’re just we’re bringing in people that we love that are doing cool things or that have cool things to say that we think you want to hear about. So if you’re huffing away on the treadmill, or if you’re working working your ass off on the Stairmaster that’s great Don’t just dial in and pay attention, we got some fun stuff that we’re going to talk about. Before we bring our guests in, though, I want to remind some folks, we’ve had a really big upgrade to the CXR Solutions Directory. So if you haven’t checked that out, I want to encourage everybody to do that. And I think I’ve got a little, let’s put this up on the screen.

Gerry Crispin 5:20
While you’re mentioning that, the piece that I love the most about that is the ability for one of our members to be able to see who has been rating various products that they use, and being able to go directly and benchmark with them and you know, in a pure platform, bypassing us to be able to do that, I think is really cool.

Chris Hoyt 5:41
Yeah, yeah. And that. So that feature along with every other upgrade we’ve put into this thing, it’s got 6000 ratings in it 350 or so vendors in it that are in use, these are not just rando, we grabbed a list of TA vendors like these are in use by somebody in the community, every feature was asked for by one of our community members by one of the leaders. And that was a big one, can you guys get out of the middle? Get out of the way, let me connect to somebody, so we happily stepped out of the way. Ah, if you don’t, if you’re watching. Or if you’re listening, I guess you can see the URL on the screen at cxr.org/directory. It really is that easy. And there’s just some really cool stuff in there. And I think you’re gonna find we’re doing our best to put some wins in for both sides of the equation. And so far, we’re having a lot of fun with that. We have some folks who are advising on the vendor side, what the solution should offer up as well. So we’re having a lot of fun with that. All right, we ready to bring our guests in? You bet. Okay, let’s do it. We’re gonna welcome to the show, Debra Yarnell. Debra, how are you?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 6:41
I’m doing well. How are you?

Chris Hoyt 6:43
Good, good. It’s so good to see you. We’ve never had you on the show before.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 6:45
I know, this is exciting. I’m glad to be here.

Chris Hoyt 6:48
You are easily impressed. I can tell. It’s fine. It’s fine.

I have a lot to share too. So that’s another reason why I’m excited to be on this show today.

We do have some interesting information to share. So for those who don’t know, Debra is the head of talent acquisition, most recently at Circana. So you’ve just joined. Why don’t you give folks a little bit of sort of an escalator pitch around who you are, a little bit of your background, what you do at Circana maybe even share for those who don’t know what Circana is, where their based at, kind of thing. And then we’ll jump in. We got a fun. We got a fun topic today.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 7:20
Awesome. Awesome. So obviously, you mentioned I am the head of TA for the Americas at Circana. Circana is a consumer insights data analytics company. So I am definitely in the right company. I love love, love data. And so, but I am on day nine here, brand new, or you know, employee, at the organization. I have 28 years of staffing experience, both corporate and agency. Most recently, you know, we’ve had a stint over at Amazon. Prior to that I had experience over in media, at Warner Media and then worked at Big Blue, IBM. But, you know, it’s been an amazing journey, you know, leading up to this new position today. And it’s I couldn’t, it’s great to be valued at all of the organizations I worked for.

Chris Hoyt 8:13
I love it. I mean, you’ve certainly got some chops. I mean, you’ve been in the space a while. You’ve been at some some big, some big brands, some some banner companies. So I think that’s fantastic. We really got to know you, though, a little bit better during this initiative, we had put together called Community Up. And it was where we, for those who don’t know, it’s where we opened the door for a full membership to TA leaders, folks in the space who were in transition recently. So if they were chatting during we interviewed, how many how many people? Did we interview for that membership?

Gerry Crispin 8:42
About a couple hundred? Actually

Chris Hoyt 8:43
Yeah, I think I think over 220, 230, folks, I think less than 50 were folks that we brought into that. Now we had plenty of other resources made available to everybody who applied and wanted to be part of that things like TA Talk Tank and, Gerry and I made ourselves available for sure. But we found, we found new friends and new new strengthened relationships with some folks who we brought in with people like yourself, Debra. So it was really exciting to see you land at your new home and start a new chapter. But I have to tell you, your experience that you shared with us throughout your search throughout your journey was really cool. Like your take your take on it was really cool. So can we talk a little bit about that.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 9:24
Yeah, absolutely. Especially since it was the first time I was in this situation, where I had to look for a job. But yeah, we can definitely talk about it.

Chris Hoyt 9:34
So would we would we put this under a banner of candidate experience? I would imagine so now you’re on the other side of the equation.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 9:40
Not just candidate, but applicant, which I think is a big difference because obviously from a candidate perspective, you actually are in the process. You know, you might have actually heard from a recruiter, but I take it even a step backwards and just you know, make it into applicant experience because sometimes you actually don’t hear from a recruiter So, um, you know, I think it’s more of an applicant experience too.

Chris Hoyt 10:05
Okay, and you’ve got, you’ve got some numbers to share with us. Because you are right, you are in your new home, like you were clearly a match for data analytics, Exactly. Share with share with us that journey, when you start tracking this stuff and you started sharing it with us. Tell us about that.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 10:20
Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that actually kept me going to because, you know, being impacted, you know, takes a toll on a person’s psyche. And, you know, being the fact that I’ve never been laid off in my entire life, actually never haven’t even been without a position since I had my first child in 2002. So this is, it was quite, you know, I don’t know, I was just floored that I have found myself in this situation. But I wanted to make the best of it, too. So you know, one of the things that I really wanted to focus on is, you know, again, I wanted to track what I was doing, but I wanted to track it to like the nth degree, meaning, not just the titles of the positions that I was working, you know, that I applied to the companies that I applied to, but I got into the, you know, what was the ATS because you can pretty much figure that out from the URL. I went into the career site to see whether or not they had talent communities, because given my background in sourcing and high level candidate experience, I, you know, I know how important talent communities are with career sites. Followed, you know, the day, you know, I tracked the the date that I applied, and then the date that I received the rejection or some sort of disposition. So I kept really, really detailed analytics around my journey.

Chris Hoyt 11:48
And is there anything you’d call out? That was like, I know, you can walk us through the whole thing. I love the fact that you were grabbing the ATS information, which is pretty interesting. But what what would be like the the biggest data point that you think you took away?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 12:03
Yeah, no, absolutely. So between April 25th, and October 29th, I had applied to 275 different opportunities, ranging everything from animal science organizations, all the way to transportation. And out of the 275 jobs that I had applied to I was rejected 125 times, meaning I got a disposition email. So that’s 44%, 56% 154 Ghosts, I did not hear no response, no response, no response. And what was really interesting is, it didn’t matter, the applicant tracking system, it was equal amongst all applicant tracking systems. So I was really floored by that data. Because, you know, being in TA for as long as I have been, I know, the capabilities of an applicant tracking system, I know what recruiters are supposed to be doing, you know, on at their jobs, you know, and that is not just reviewing individuals, but you know, once positions, close out disposition, everybody that didn’t actually make it through the process. So, you know, I was not surprised that I didn’t hear back from recruiters even after, you know, having final interviews, I know that it’s a lot of organizations have, you know, legal situations where they cannot provide any additional data other than you are not a good fit for this position. But I was, you know, I did have 2, out of all the 275, 2 reach out to me and explain, you know, why the company made the decision that they did, and it was valid, you know, like, both of them were, you know, Hey, Deb, you know, you haven’t had a rec load that you actually controlled in 15 years. So, maybe maybe this is not the right opportunity for you, I’m like, you’re absolutely right. So, you know, it was nice to be able to have that conversation. But I also felt because of that conversation that I that that person opened up the door for when other opportunities came up, I had the the ease of like reaching out to that individual and saying, Hey, would I be a good fit for this role? Should I apply? Yeah, and so you know, it was it was a comfort level that I didn’t you know, receive from any of the other positions that I got rejected because I never heard from them. I didn’t even know who was actually reviewing my, my application.

Chris Hoyt 14:26
So what kills me though, is like that, that percentage of not even any of the you know, Beep boop, beep Bop, you got no automated robot, AI driven like whatever automation of a response at all, no acknowledgement of applying. No, thanks. but no thanks.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 14:44
There was acknowledgement of the application. So you know, thank you for applying. We received your resume your application and someone will review it. So those happened, the disposition never happened. And I’m like, and I know for sure that the positions close because, you know, I was tracking, you know, the my applications on LinkedIn, Indeed, Zip Recruiter. And I really focused more on like the LinkedIn side and Indeed side of things because I can actually see when a position was closed. And so and by the way, not only did I go ahead and you know, take full advantage of the easy apply, but I didn’t just put my eggs in that basket, I also applied to the position on the career site, because, you know, not sure, you know, who was actually reviewing, you know, applications on easy apply versus the actual career sites. So I did it both. But it was interesting, because like LinkedIn had the, the, you know, notification that the position was closed, but never sent anything to me as an applicant, you know, so I thought that was a little interesting, too, because you would think that LinkedIn would at least notify, you know, if they can notify that you match jobs, and that you should apply to positions. Why don’t they tell you, Hey, you didn’t, you know, make it through the process and this position has been closed?

Gerry Crispin 16:06
It’s quite an interesting idea.

Chris Hoyt 16:07
Well, it is. It is. I could argue, though, I could argue, though, that that that should sit with the organization, they may have some sort of rule, and I don’t know what LinkedIn stances on this. But there could be some sort of rule or guideline or stance, the org takes that says, why they do or don’t reach out shity shity or not have, you know, the approach, but it does seem to me that if you weren’t qualified, and you were ruled out, not reaching out to you pretty standard, I think, unfortunately, but when the rec closes, to say the job is filled, and not do some sort of, like, disposition, mass disposition in the system, that then sends a note out, just kind of seems lazy.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 16:47
Absolutely.

Gerry Crispin 16:46
Totally lazy. It’s, it’s, it’s unconscionable in today’s age, and with the technologies that we have, even if you didn’t have some fancy ATS that would, you know, adjudicate all of these things for you and remind you of that, and give you one button to push being able to search for, collect and send a massive disposition out. When you close the rec. Almost anybody could do that. And, and before the internet, he sent friggin postcards out to people on an ongoing basis. So, you know, it’s doable. And and I think I think I love the the stats here. They don’t surprise me. But I do think that one of the measures of recruiting as an industry ought to be the extent to which we close down those companies, recruiting activities that are not closing for the candidate, at some point call them out for what they are,.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 17:56
Right. What’s What’s it was even more interesting is the two industries that I apply to the most which was technology, as well as staffing. From a staffing perspective, the staffing industry perspective. 80%, ghosting rate, staffing, 80% technology, 45%, ghosting, rate. C’mon now.

Chris Hoyt 18:25
I kind of feel like we’re in an era right? We’re in a chapter for talent acquisition, where we’re getting our own medicine fed to us, right for so for leaders who never gave a shit about candidate experience or weren’t focused on it because of the supply demand equation for organizations that just didn’t care. And now we’re on the other side of that equation. And a lot of leaders going oh my god, like this is what it’s going to apply to my own jobs. That was one thing to learn but to but to feel the heat of looking for work actually looking for work and waiting for an email to come back or having to get through the application process. I’m wondering if this will be a wake up call and and create a refocus on candidate experience. So Debra, does it does this change how you view candidate experience? Like is this going to be a priority role.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 19:11
I’ve always been focused on, for me, it was more of an eye opening around I cannot believe that there are so many other organizations out there that just don’t care and it comes down to caring. I even take it to the next level. This way is you know, most of my experience has been sourcing, you know, building out talent communities nurturing those talent communities. They’re, they’re losing this ability to to communicate with their applicants. I mean, it’s not even a passive lead. But these are applicants why would you not want to continue the conversation to develop those relationships? So for me personally, you know, like specifically like It doesn’t change my view on how I perceive this organization, this industry, but I was just more of a, it was a shock to the system to see how bad it was. And it wasn’t that, you know, these were small industries, you know, small company industries and technology or small staffing companies were large ones to. Right. So you would think that they would have the infrastructure and the knowledge to go ahead and say, we need to do a really good job at making sure that our applicants have a really great experience, not just our passives too.

Gerry Crispin 20:32
Ah, over the years, you know, talent board only acknowledges those that are doing a really a good job for a variety of reasons, including one key issue, which is whether they close by informing all candidates that we’re not going forward. But I have to tell you, over the years, we’ve seen candidates who have been submitted to rate if you will, a lot of companies that think they’re doing well in candidate experience. And we’ve seen negative NPS scores as as bad as minus 80 kind of thing, which, which obviously is indicative that there’s a lot going wrong within the industry in terms of all that.

Chris Hoyt 20:35
Yeah, I just think Well, I just think we’re, we’re in a period of time, it’s so TA is more heavily impacted than I think, specifically than they have been in years, anyone can remember, are now part of the application equation. And in a time when organizations are turning off jobs early, because so many people are applying, why should they care about the candidate experience, there’s just a surplus of people wanting to work for me. And I worry that I think that we know leaders that care Gerry, we know leaders, the care, that’s why we hang out with those leaders. That’s that’s why we pull those leaders together. But by and large, I think organizations are like, Why the hell should I do anything? I got, I got plenty. I got people out of my ATS every time I hit the Shift key, why am I worried?

Gerry Crispin 22:09
I want to give you one small kind of thing that I’ve just learned from listening to Debra And that is, if I were, Debra. And for whatever reason I need to my 11 recruiters are not going to be able to handle a particular job. And I’ve decided that it’s the best interest of the company to use a staffing firm. That staffing firm is now representing me and my company. And I better talk to them about the standards that I want in terms of a variety of things in terms of setting expectations, but also how they close. And I want that in writing. And I’m I would be adamant about checking on that as well. So my point is, we granted that a company, a staffing company, whatever, may not care, but if I’m in a position where I can hold them accountable, and out them, then defend that to my peers, they’ll start paying attention. And I do think what you’ve learned Debra, it would be interesting to, to get a post from you on not only the experience that you had, but how you might change various things to ensure that your recruiters are in fact closing properly, that you know, any number of different kinds of things occur that you think would improve the candidate experience. And of course,

Debra Yarnall, Circana 23:41
Yeah, and it’s so funny because, like, I always go back to and not that I’m a big fan of the type of pizza but Pizza Hut has the most amazing experience online and my kids love it. So I’m not dissing Pizza Hut, but are not Pizza Hut. Domino’s. Sorry, Domino’s, Domino’s.

Chris Hoyt 24:02
Oh, yeah, Domino’s has an amazing tracker.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 24:05
You know, like, how come in this day and age. And I know the Domino’s Pizza tracker has been in existence for at least 5, 6, 7 years, maybe. But how come in this day and age? applicant tracking systems and companies alike don’t have their Domino’s Pizza tracker candidate tracker embedded in their system? How amazing would it be for a candidate to understand that their their application is being reviewed? Their application is being shared with a hiring manager. Their application, you know, is you know, aging, you know, all the way through to you know, their application has been dispositioned. Like, if that technology already exists, why are not other companies deploying that?

Chris Hoyt 24:55
Debra? I think you’re right, look, we ordered Domino’s a week or so ago and I have to tell you, I I could tell where Marta was with my pizza. I knew when it went in the oven, I knew when it came out of the oven, I knew when Marta took it, and I could watch Marta on a map. So why can’t I see where my where my application is in it from a disposition state, it’s just a step or status in the platform.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 25:15
Absolutely. I’m sure that Domino’s rates, their stories based on how much time in between those different steps it took for that pizza to be created. And then, you know, delivered to the person’s house. As a TA leader, I would want to have that same kind of insight into how long did it take for, you know, recruiters to review profiles, you know, move them in through all of those steps all the way to hire like, it just seems to be to be a no brainer, you know, to be able to identify gaps and process bottlenecks.

Gerry Crispin 25:52
Yep. But I just can’t wait. I can’t wait until you have that going Debra. I’m telling you, that’s, that’s definitely going to be an interesting podcast that Chris,

Chris Hoyt 26:05
We’ll come back to this. Okay. So Debra, did you use any AI in your in your applicant journey?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 26:13
No interesting enough. I didn’t, not me, but I know that some companies did have that. And at least two companies asked me for permission for an AI bot to review my application. One again, I said yes. And one I said no, but but it was, it was interesting that of the 275 applications I’ve put through. And I know for sure AI is embedded in a lot of different ATS and CRM technology. Yep, they stack rank people all the time. And, you know, I know that there’s like, arguments on both sides of the of the fence as to, you know, should we or should we not embed AI into our application review process. But it was interesting that at least these two organizations asked for asked me for permission, which I thought that was really, you know, telling of the organization that they actually cared whether or not I cared if a human was reviewing my application versus a bot?

Chris Hoyt 27:19
Are you are you comfortable saying I think it’s very admirable that they let you know that that was going to be? Are you comfortable saying who those organizations are?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 27:25
I can’t remember I’d have to go back to my tracker on that.

Chris Hoyt 27:29
I asked you because it’s kind of interesting. So and I mentioned this on another, we did another podcast show, and I mentioned it, whereas I have a daughter who’s Gen Z. And she’s been applying for corporate jobs for going on a year, right? Really looking for her ideal corporate job. Same thing. The ghosting, no response at all, like no, no even acknowledgement from a lot of these organizations. And all I can tell her is outside of the networking aspect, it’s a numbers game, it means you have to keep plugging at it. So it’s interesting that your numbers can how many how many callbacks, interviews, did you get it for the 270 plus?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 28:02
50.

Chris Hoyt 28:03
So 50 came back. So earlier in the month, we learned about a platform called Lazy Apply and it’s an AI and I’m not endorsing it, I just want to shine a little light on it. Lazy Apply as AI powered service. And for I guess a fee of a couple $100 gives you a lifetime membership. I don’t know why you need a lifetime membership. But they they provide a solution that automates the job applications. And they are able to target 1000s of jobs based on these basic parameters that you can put in. There was a gentleman who did this. He signed up he went to bed and I guess 2000 applies later wakes up in the morning, this thing had applied over 2000 jobs overnight. Yeah. And he had 20 interviews as a result. Platform. I know the platform guarantees. The AI drives it, I think it’s kind of a clicky, whatever. I don’t know that it’s actually really. But it actually guarantees an interview or you get your money back. But what what we have learned from a couple people who’ve who’ve reached out to us is that it kind of randomly selects answers to pre screen questions. So it’s probably screening isn’t screening you in. But we learned about Sonora, or Sonara? I guess that’s, it’s like $80 a month, we learned about Massive. That does. I think it does 50 applications a week. But humans get engaged to review it. So it’s kind of an interesting shift. Of that numbers game and Gerry and I were laughing about this the other day, we were talking to our friend Brent, who’s who head of TA over at Dell. It’s kind of like TA’s had the AI and the apps and the automation and all that for a long time. And now the candidates have the AI and the apps and the automate. You know, they’ve got a little bit of power they haven’t had before. And now we’re wondering the employers are wanting Ooh, can I get some AI to screen the AI applications? Ai driven? Like it’s a silly, silly circle and in some analytics we were looking at The gentleman who was sharing it with us said, we’ve already removed all of the AI driven applicants, we’re not counting those in this response. So the AI content from Apply is already getting screened out of some of the analytics and the processes.

Gerry Crispin 30:15
And yet many of them may be highly qualified. Yeah. Right. So So there’s, there is there is an issue, but I love the fact that you have a number that says you got callbacks, if you will, on about 20%. But it took a significant amount of time over a significant amount of time for you to do that. 250 Yeah, you know, application. So

Debra Yarnall, Circana 30:40
And by the way, the 50 interviews were also inclusive of like, second interview, third interview, fourth interview, so I had it was actually like, 20. I think it was 21 companies that got back to me.

Gerry Crispin 30:52
Got it. Okay, so

Debra Yarnall, Circana 30:54
I think that’s significant.

Gerry Crispin 30:56
Yeah, I think it is significant.

Chris Hoyt 31:00
Yeah. Pretty, pretty crazy. So Debra I’ll ask you, and I love I love the data. I’d love to share. I do think we have to do like, we do have to circle back and talk about kind of what what’s been going on at Circana. When you when you’ve kind of been you’re not the shiny penny anymore, right? You start. But if let me ask if you were going to write a book about this experience. So the last the last six to seven months, this experience soup to nuts, what would you title that book?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 31:28
Woof. Ah, goodness, that’s a big question here.

Chris Hoyt 31:34
That’s why we surprise you with it.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 31:36
I know the title would be called. I don’t know something. Something about Don’t be a ghost. Don’t be a ghost be a human.

Chris Hoyt 31:53
Okay, I’ll take that. I’ll take that. All right. So present company excluded. Here’s your curveball present company excluded. Who gets the first signed copy?

Debra Yarnall, Circana 32:02
Oh, Gerry, because it

Chris Hoyt 32:04
Nope, nope, can’t do us, can’t do us.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 32:08
Katrina Collier.

Chris Hoyt 32:10
Oh, lovely.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 32:11
Yes. Because she breaks an amazing amount of content around recruiters and how they, you know, recruited her recruiting isn’t dead. And you know, it’s, I really value her experience and her knowledge. And so I did buy most of her books. Like, first person I send it to.

Chris Hoyt 32:33
She’s great. We should actually invite her in to talk about her view on what’s going on his face. I love her stuff. We should yeah. 100% follow up. We’ll do that. All right, good. So well. Debra, I want to thank you so much. I know you’re busy in your new role. You’re and I just love how excited you are. It’s been wonderful to really get to know you a little bit over the last couple of months. And I’m really anxious to see what you what you do over at Circana.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 32:54
Thank you. Yeah, I’m excited. I love the people there. The culture is fantastic. So despite the journey being six months, I’m so glad that this was how I ended.

Chris Hoyt 33:05
I love it. I’m going to put it in the books for q2, maybe early q3. we regroup and kind of see see what you’ve blown up over there.

Debra Yarnall, Circana 33:13
Sounds good.

Chris Hoyt 33:14
All right, good stuff. Hang out in the greenroom. Don’t go anywhere. We’ll play a little bit of music and whatever been on chat with you just after this. And that’s it. Gerry, you want to say goodbye to everybody until next week.

Gerry Crispin 33:25
Goodbye everybody till next week.

CXR Announcer 33:29
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