Chris Hoyt, CXR
I should have taken Juneteenth off. Like I appreciate the holiday, I understand what it means. I understand history there, the value of that. But I think as a business owner, you can probably appreciate this as well, Charlie, there are holidays that you probably should take off. But instead you kind of just take your laptop to the pool or Treyarch All right.

Charlie Franklin 0:19
Yeah, yeah, in retrospect, I should have just taken the day fully off yesterday, so many others were offline. But yeah, definitely a day of catch up emails for me and a couple internal meetings. So you know, what to do next year?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:34
Well what I did notice, and I’d love to know if you notice the same thing. So So from email inbound, right, coming in standpoint, I think the this year far less evil. Yeah. Coming certainly from corporate than last year. But from the in the vendor space, and the small business base. And maybe this just backs up what I was saying, but like, I still getting the same notes, still getting the same outreach,

Charlie Franklin 1:02
All the automated sequences are still firing. But it is funny running a startup when you realize that your customers aren’t working and your investors aren’t working. You’re the only one that you’re doing something wrong.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:14
It’s just you. It’s just your work. And you’re the only one working today.

Charlie Franklin 1:17
It’s like that feedback I can learn.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:19
Yeah, yeah. Well, look, we’re gonna talk pay transparency. today. I’m excited to bring you back to the show. Are you are you ready to jump into it?

Charlie Franklin 1:26
Let’s get into it. There’s lots to talk about.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:28
Alright, we’re live. Let’s get started. Here we go.

CXR Announcer 1:32
Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for Talent Acquisition and Talent Management. listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging and retaining the best talent, we’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:01
All right, watchers and listeners, thank you for coming back to the show. We are live today. We do this. Hopefully, we tried to do this every week. As a reminder, this is the recruiting committee podcast, I am Chris Hoyt, I’m gonna be your host of this water cooler chat for the next 20 minutes or so. We hope you enjoy it. We hope you’ll join in with us if you’re watching this on YouTube. If you’re watching this on LinkedIn, a couple of different places where you see a live chat stream or live chat box next to it jump in, you can ask a question of our guests that’s going to be on today. As we welcome him back to the show. You can ask a question of us. Or if you dare, you can drop in your social media profiling, do a little bit of networking, and check in or just say hi, sometimes we stopped the whole show just to say hi back to you. Anyway, these are 20 minute chats with folks who we really think are doing cool work in the space and that we think warrant some of your attention. This is not nobody pays to be on the show. We don’t have Happy Tuesday to you to Sara, we don’t have any type of pay to play or advertisements or sponsorships. So this is just a labor of love. We do a conversation with folks that are doing cool stuff. And with that I want to bring in the next guest that we brought in today. Not his first time on the show. Welcoming back Charlie Franklin, Charlie, how are you?

Charlie Franklin 3:14
I’m doing pretty well, Chris, how you doing today?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:16
Good Good to see you. You’re in a you’re in a different setting today than I normally see you. You know,

Charlie Franklin 3:20
I got two kids now. And so I got kicked out of my office. So kind of surrounded by nursery stuff wherever I go. But a little more space over here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:28
I had an interesting chat with gentleman today. He’s got some he’s got some some real life family stuff going on. They’re doing some potty training at their home. And I just you know, we’ve got we’ve all got crap we have to deal with. But that’s the kind of crap that I’m excited that I don’t have to I don’t have to.

Charlie Franklin 3:44
I took work so seriously in some ways before I had kids. And little did I know that all my colleagues who are older than me that I looked up to were dealing with that stuff in the background. So it’s humbling to prioritize family alongside work and, and kind of fun to,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:59
I have to so I’ll do a confession here. This has nothing to do with the show when I was a very young recruiter, and people had to work from home. And I didn’t have kids yet. And I didn’t I didn’t really understand it when I would hear a dog barking at it. This is like almost 30 years ago dog barking in the background, or a baby crying. There was a part of me that was like, get your professional act together. I don’t want to hear your family stuff in the background. And it’s a 180 today.

Charlie Franklin 4:25
Yeah you had no idea. Seriously,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:28
No clue what I was like, why am I why was now a dog runs in the back are babies running by yelling I’ve got fire, like anything can be going on in the background. And now I’m like, that’s okay.

Charlie Franklin 4:37
It’s 2023 No, it’s not true. And just that there’s so much more integration of how your time spent between personal life and work life. I remember when I was in the corporate world I would hear some of our executives say things along the lines of sometimes I’m taking a shower, an important idea will come to me about something I want to do with the product of the team and there’s so much truth to that. Really when Have you ever thinking about work and processing? You are and being respectful of people’s different schedules and, and commitments, you know, family or otherwise? It’s just, you know, it’s 2023. So we do.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:13
So So 2023. So that’s going to bring us to the topic today we’re going to talk about patron St. But Charlie, for those who don’t know, you, who haven’t had the pleasure to get to know you a little bit or learn about what you do, and what competence can you give us? Can you give us sort of a escalator pitch? Like, who is Charlie Franklin? And why should we be paying attention to what you say today?

Charlie Franklin 5:33
Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, hey, all who haven’t met. My name is Charlie Franklin. I’m co founder and CEO of Compa. My background is as a compensation person, not a recruiter. But I worked with lots of talent acquisition teams, as most recently at workday, prior to founding Compa. And really what we’re all about at Compa is marrying the worlds of talent acquisition and compensation through data and software. When I was a compensation leader, I, of course, interacted with my talent acquisition team, but it was limited fairly focused to dealing with unusual executive hires, maybe the occasional offer exception. And for recruiters out there, that the the big myths that I had that is obvious to all of you, is that recruiters are out there every day interfacing with the talent Marketplace, including talking about compensation, which, of course, has only accelerated in this era of patrones, pregnancy. But even a few years ago, compensation teams are just constantly scraping for ways to find out what’s going on in the market to get great sources of data, get a competitive advantage, make sure that you’re bringing those insights into meetings with the C suite with the comp committee of the board to set pay strategy set equity strategy, if you’re in tech. I guess what I’m saying is, I could have been listening to the talent acquisition team the whole time. And there’s so many examples I can point to, in my, in my corporate life and comp, where we were trying to orchestrate some shifts in our compensation strategy that has been accelerated through tighter alignment and collaboration with talent acquisition. So so what we’re all about is really taking advantage of the sort of overlapping interests and alignment incentives between these two organizations with comp people trying to set pay strategy and steward corporate resources and recruiters to oversimplify it, really trying to get the best butts and seats as fast as possible. And so our software helps them do exactly that. As well as kind of aggregate some important insights and the recruiters seeing the market every day to serve back to comp teams to second.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 7:54
So let’s level set a little bit, Charlie, so can you can you sort of explain for listeners and watchers, can you kind of explain. When we say pay transparency, can you explain maybe what that is? And why is it such a hot topic in recruitment today?

Charlie Franklin 8:10
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, pay transparency. It’s a phrase that gets thrown around a lot, it can be hard to define it or pin someone down and say, what exactly is this? And that’s because patrones fancy, can kind of mean a lot of things. If you’re paying attention to the news today, you’re probably thinking about the legislation that has passed in many states recently, like California, like New York, like Washington, that requires that recruiters and other corporate leaders disclose certain things like salary ranges on job postings, or has prohibitions on asking for things like a candidate salary history, that is pay transparency, and it’s an important piece of it, because we all have to be compliant. But there’s a bigger picture in the background, that pay transparency movement was born out of really pay equity, and that’s an underlying motivation of most of the legislation, pay equity, in terms of, you know, originally from a legal perspective, large organizations getting faced with lawsuits for discriminatory pay, and sort of that evolution towards we need to be more transparent with exactly how pay decisions get made. And then, you know, to these de facto practices like, hey, asking candidates what they currently make can have this outcome that unfairly affects how people ultimately get offered compensation. But with all that being said, we take the biggest step back, really what’s happening. There’s a long term trend that’s accelerating where compensation is. Comp practitioners like to say this, Hey, compensations. It’s a little bit of art little bit of science. That’s a euphemism for, you know, we could Be a little more precise with how these decisions are getting made, particularly at scale. There’s a shifting social contract between the worker and employer where there’s just a higher level of accountability and precision. That’s expected. And so pay transparency is the shift from secretive and discretionary to more open and accountable where differences in pay are measurable and objective at scale. And so there’s a lot of ways to explain what pay transparency is, I think for recruiters, so it’s really changing how you work every day. And that’s, you know, that’s where we help focus in with with ta teams make sure that keeping up with all the change,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 10:34
So I understand the premise, I love the art and science reference because that I want to put a pin in that for just the industry of recruiting right arguments for all things mystery, but there are arguments, Charlie, like against pay transparency, so with with fears of decreased motivation, or from a competitive standpoint, even increased conflict among employees, right, because you’ve got compression as a sort of a downstream impact of a big piece of this. So how would How would you? Or how would your organization maybe respond to those concerns?

Charlie Franklin 11:07
Yeah, you know, you can’t just sort of rip the band aid and make all these changes overnight. Because the shift and the shift that pay transparency drives, it starts with the underlying data, it moves into corporate processes, and then ultimately communication. And there’s a cultural component to this too, and bear that in mind, pay transparency feels very new, maybe a little scary United States. This is nothing new in other parts of the world. And I always cite an example, when I was at Juniper Networks, the largest r&d site at Juniper, at least at the time, and I believe still today is in Bangalore, in India. And I visited there are a number of times and chatted with the employees and our compensation team there, it’s pretty common to share what you make, like if you go to a neighbor’s barbecue, and ask him, what’s your title, how much money you make, that’s not considered rude. So bear in mind, there’s the underlying cultural piece here. And you have to take that into account as you make a transition towards patrones. Pregnancy, I would say for organizations that you have fears around what’s going to be the positive and negative impact here. It’s absolutely right to think about patrones parents see as a communication problem. But the broader problem underneath it is about trust. And if you’re not taking proactive steps to build a culture in your organization, have accountability around. Let’s say, your managers have discretion over what your performance base pay increases. That shouldn’t be a popularity contests, there should be objective criteria that underlie that that’s communicated clearly to employees. So they understand. Here’s what I’m being paid and why. Compensation, it’s, it’s a basic need, this is affecting people’s life at home, you’ve got to get it right. It’s not just words on a wall. This is this is people’s paychecks. And so that’s what I would say is, it’s a journey, you’ve got to take the cultural underlying cultural implications into account depending on the where, where in the world, you’re executing it. But but it’s not going anywhere. This thing is here, the laws are only accelerating, more and more companies are opening up.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:16
Yeah, you met, you know, you referenced United States, I’ve been talking to a lot of recruiting leaders lately, especially who are looking for work, right, they’re on to their next adventure. They’re in the they’re in transition for this challenge that they’ve got in front of them. And a lot of them are talking about these ridiculous ranges, or no, no pay information at all. And I have a theory and I’d love your expertise to win this. I have a theory I know that we have legislature that’s that’s been put into place that requires that, you know, we list in various areas, city states, the salary for particular roles or ranges for particular roles. Yet, we’re not seeing that widely adopted across the board, we’re still in like the 20 Something percentile, you probably have a more more recent number than I do of organizations that have listed a range of pay a reasonable range of pay. And I think we’re not going to see mass adoption on that until somebody gets a fine until the firt. Like the teeth right, that the we’re expected of this or that have been threatened, really sink into a big organization, then I think we’re going to start seeing it take off. Do you think do you see that differently?

Charlie Franklin 14:25
I actually completely agree. And my perspective on this comes from this is sort of a wonky corner of the world of compensation. But executive compensation has lots of transparency laws in place, and it has for decades. And the reality is, those laws were written in vague enough terms, it’s hard to know exactly how to comply with it. Maybe there’s an incentive not to comply with it in the spirit of the law, and it really takes somebody getting sued and you know it is gonna be one of the big guys and then we’ll We’ll all sort of look to how the courts interpret that lawsuit to set precedent. With that being said, Look, I’ll bring quite a bit of empathy to the recruiting ops teams and the compensation ops teams that are trying to figure this out. For most HR teams who are ushering in pay transparency, they really only started this project six months ago, when these laws went into effect in California, New York and Washington. And so they’re just figuring out it’s early innings, we see goofy stuff like gigantic ranges, I’ll tell you one of the reasons that’s happening recruiters, which I’m sure it’s frustrating. It’s it’s nuanced, but it’s important. A lot of companies have geo based compensation where let’s say you get paid x in New York, you get paid why in Nebraska, because labor markets, but the postal roll with multiple locations. And so sounds like a goofy, like, couldn’t you just like show a different range for the different tiers? It’s like, yeah, you probably could, but that’s the kind of thing that they’re figuring out so so absent that they’re just artificially showing a minimum that reflects the very bottom in Nebraska and a maximum that reflects the very top in New York. And then add to that a lot of times, when you’re hiring a role, you don’t know what level it’s going to be until you talk to the candidate. And so it can also reflect multiple levels. So the result is you get these goofy ranges. And this is the kind of thing I guarantee you, you know, six 912 months out from now this is going to get ironed out, at least the best companies are going to figure it out.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 16:25
It would be interesting, so the Vegas traveler in me wants to do a betting board and what company’s gonna get like take the first bullet. Right? Is it going to be one of the Fortune organizations? Is it going to be somebody who was too snarky to the to the lawmakers? Is it like, what’s gonna come into play for that?

Charlie Franklin 16:43
Exactly. I mean, there’s, there’s so many companies that are doing this badly that you take your pick, I think it’s whoever the lawmaker is gonna feel like, you know, pulling over for a speeding ticket that day.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 16:53
So it’s, it’s it is funny to me. So there is this element of being really worried about well, what does it mean when we show our rate of pay, but you and I have had a couple of talks around. And we’ve actually done some coursework, we should talk about that. But we just course one on pay transparency as a competitive advantage. So yeah, so can you can you share what that means to you? Like, how is being transparent, you know, seen as an advantage when you’re recruiting when a lot of recruiters coming back when I put this range up here, and people are out, like nobody wants to talk about it, that range is too big. My company won’t let me like, how can we shift how that sort of looked at by the recruiting industry?

Charlie Franklin 17:30
Yeah, so that’s exactly right, Chris. So here’s the deal, recruiters, I’m going to make an analogy that compares the two sales folks. And I know there’s limits to that. But this is important. The more you talking about compensation, earlier and awesome in the process, that the more likely you are to disqualify unqualified candidates faster. So you can run your process more efficiently. But then additionally, by pulling up the conversation about pay in the recruiting process, you’re going to build trust earlier on. It’s a terrible feeling for a candidate when they’re progressing through all the interview stages, and then they get to the offer, and it’s a surprise in the wrong way. And then you get to this sort of heated negotiation with a big time pressure piece. If you use pay transparency to your advantage, you can not only use that to do to really have a better outcome targeting candidates at the top of your funnel. But then, through each progressive conversation as they move through the candidate workflow and process you can better and better illuminate what is it that they care about? Is it a base salary? Or is that a bonus or their their walkaway stock that you get paid out for? You explain how your programs work? How do you set strategy against the market for salaries? How do you think about benefits, right, like get to a place where when it’s time to make an offer, there’s so much valuable input to craft, a win win package that it will be within your guidelines and get approved is fair compared to what other employees make and meets the needs for this candidate. And in all those ways, as a recruiter, I just think patrons parents has elevated the role. You’re more of this trusted financial advisor to candidates who are making these gigantic personal finance decisions, and you are the voice of the organization for what your compensation strategy is. That’s always been true. It’s only even truer now with patriotic currency.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 19:25
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think having having been a recruiter myself, and I mean lead recruiters, I think the earlier you can have that conversation and the expectations and done in the right way because there are things you can’t say anymore. You can’t ask anymore. With regards to you know, what somebody’s current salary is? I think that does establish you’re right on the money trail, it does establish a trust and and in essence, it betters the candidate experience. I think it elevates your legitimacy as a partner in that process. And I think you use the word just now but advisor so when we talked for least a decade about it When becoming talent advisors, and not just transactional recruitment, I think this, this lends itself in that direction that says, Look, I know what I’m talking about, I know the role, I know the comp for this. And if it’s not a fit for you, if it’s not enough comp, we can establish that early on. And I’m still going to have a relationship with you downstream, right to move towards other roles, or when we do have competent arrange that you need for your lifestyle.

Charlie Franklin 20:23
That’s exactly right. And with all the salary ranges posted on job postings, know what your competitors are doing to know what you know, there’s gonna be some areas where you’re weaker, it’s gonna be a lot of areas where you’re stronger. And so if it’s a competitive candidate who you know, is talking to, you know, some of your top talent competitors, having that type of insight to really just show how you’re differentiated and see whether that’s aligned with the candidate is just going to serve you. And they’re going to find this out eventually, it’s better to find it out sooner and be a part of the conversation versus wondering what they’re saying back home to their family,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:56
I’ve made that mistake is yeah, I’ve made that mistake as a recruiter to you don’t talk about it till the end, you thought you had a candidate, the hiring manager thinks it’s all done. And it’s like, yeah, no, yeah. And then you got to have the argument back in the office about should you pay him more? Where do you get the money from?

Charlie Franklin 21:10
You never had to deal in the first place? Yeah, you just didn’t know it? Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 21:14
Well, okay. So there’s two things I do want to talk about before, before we get I know worried about the 20 minute mark. We’ve done this coursework together. So your your team has done in my humble, but correct opinion, a phenomenal job. At the content behind this course. I’m gonna see if we can actually pull up. You want to talk a little bit about this? I mean, we’ve made it free to our members, any CXR members can actually take a look at it or throw it on the screen, if you want to talk a little bit about sort of what what went behind that?

Charlie Franklin 21:43
Yeah, let’s do it. Yeah, the, you know, our big contribution, I guess to the world on on pay transparency is our belief that this has a huge impact on recruiters. Recruiters on the front lines of pay transparency, that the new legislation is coming in line directly affects how they do their jobs day to day. And then like I mentioned earlier, the need for recruiters to have mastery over how the compensation strategy is defined how benefits work, and understanding how to pull out things that matter. Most of the candidates, this is only increased in importance. And so what we thought would be valuable is to put together some coursework to really help usher in this this job upgrade for recruiters where no longer can you be transactional, or vaguely familiar with how compensation works generally at your organization. Lee, you really need to become an expert at it, to understand your candidate to understand your own programs and make offers that are likely to get approved and win.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:44
Yeah, and if you’re watching, I’ve got I do have it up on the screen. But it’s I do want to do a quick shout out. Sure I know I didn’t tell you I was going to do this. But I just if I were still a TA leader, Charlie, I don’t think I told you this. This wasn’t 100% B, of course, that would be required for my recruiters to go through before they could make another offer the the what you can say can’t say must say the difference the explanation of equity and parity when we’re talking about paying comp is fantastic. So I want to give a shout out obviously you’re on the screen, Charlie, of course. April, who did a wonderful job, Bobby. And of course, Zack, these guys were phenomenal. In the delivery of it, you guys did the work wrong button there. There we go. You guys did the work on this. We we packaged it up together to give it to the members and stuff. But it really is just a knockout course. Where did we live about an hour and a half? I think total of course.

Charlie Franklin 23:37
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And we break it up into a few modules to focus on different areas. So you know, for look, some recruiters are already really strong at this, especially if you’ve been in the executive recruiting world where you’re getting, you know, I remember like the the screenshots of E trade statements and trying to forensically piece together, the stock that someone’s walking away from, it’s very complex, it can truly get complicated quickly. But for those who are new to this, maybe you’ve been in the broad base, maybe haven’t been recruiting nationally, but just for, you know, isolated corporate roles in a certain market. This is a big change. And so hopefully you find the course as a valuable primer on with some areas with an opportunity to go quite a bit deeper.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:15
Yeah yeah, it’s a it’s a big one. And it just, I mean, it was a pleasure to work with you guys to put this piece together for our members. So we’re excited about it. Anybody can take the course just a disclaimer there. Okay, so sure, you’ve also done some work on your own site, where you’ve done some really interesting stuff with regards to sharing what patrons parents you sort of looking like in this calculation and all of the work that you put together you want to I’ll pull that up on the screen as well, because I think, yeah, people don’t know that it’s there than they should. But I want to give you a chance to kind of walk through that if you will. And I think I’ve got it pulled up here.

Charlie Franklin 24:46
Yeah, definitely. So yeah, we we create and maintain a resource of focus on trace, pay transparency for recruiters on our website. Chris has it up here. So what we’re doing you can scroll down a bit to get a sense of this We’re tracking the legislation by state municipality on what exactly is going on with pay transparency specifically for recruiters. And so like, if you click on California, for example, you’ll get a sense of, you know what you must do. So, for example, you have to disclose salary ranges on job postings. What you can do, which is you can ask about someone’s pay expectations, for example. And then what you cannot do an example that is asked for someone’s current salary. There’s a lot of surface area to get confused or go out of compliance, particularly for recruiters who are interviewing candidates across multiple different states, regardless of where a job is posted, there’s, there’s ways that you could get on the wrong side of this law, which of course, nobody wants to do. So for now, there’s a patchwork of pay transparency, legislation, laws, legislation, the United States, and we’re just trying to make that easy to navigate. And so this is a free resource available on our website for recruiters, or really anyone who’s interested to track on what the latest is, so you can do jobs better.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:03
Yeah, I love it. And I love the fact it’s like I said before, the must do can do cannot do fantastic resource. I love this quick check. I also have the we’ve kind of broken out the US here with regards to both state and local laws, or whether they’re just local laws or just state laws, or if there are laws pending, or as appropriate for Texas. It’s just the wild west there are some of these just don’t have anything cooking yet.

Charlie Franklin 26:27
It’s too complicated. It’s it’s ridiculous. And I think the average recruiter, look, they’re just trying to get through it without being out of compliance and learn something along the way about their candidates. And so, you know, if if you’re getting tangled up, check out that resource. And hopefully the next few years, we’ll get some national patrons, parents and legislation.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:44
Awesome. Yeah, I love it. Easiest way to get to it. It’s tricopter.com. If you’re listening and you weren’t watching, I think you scroll all the way to the bottom, there is a link in the footer. And it’s pay transparency map, keeping it simple. We appreciate that. Got it. You can click on that and go through there. And then how often you guys update it, Charlie, you just are you hovered over the keyboard for updates, or

Charlie Franklin 27:01
Yeah, exactly. And there’s there’s new laws being proposed going in front of Congress and various states and municipalities all the time. By the way, there’s a lot changing around the rest of the world to our resources just tracking us. But there’s change all the time, we’re in an acceleration period, with these laws getting on the books. So we update it regularly. Check it out, if you see something that that doesn’t look right, you can always shoot our team. And now I’m pretty sure will capture it for you.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:30
And when I did that, and we didn’t click on it. But there’s a link in each of those for the specific legislation, which is just a really great tool. And I think that’s handy. A lot of I mean, the more arrows in your quiver as a as a TA practitioner, I think the better when you’re going back to the business, and you’re talking to your leadership,

Charlie Franklin 27:45
Absolutely bring more facts and data to the conversation.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 27:48
That’s it. Trust and verify Trust, but verify. That’s all right. So Charlie, we asked this of all of our guests that are on the show, if you’re gonna write a book, about the state of things today, what what would the title Charlie of that of that book be?

Charlie Franklin 28:06
Oh, man, all right. Let’s call it from radio to television, the transition into the era of pay transparency. And, and here’s why I call it that, I guess. I think that’s exactly what’s going on right now is we’ve just invented the movie camera and the radio show hosts are still standing in front of the microphone, reading the news with the camera pointing them nobody’s grasped the profundity of the medium change, and how it’s going to change how we work our processes, how we communicate. We’re just at the beginning of the patrons parents era. So that’s that’s the best title I got for now.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:42
I love that and and not including anybody that’s on the stream with us right now. Who would you give the first signed copy to?

Charlie Franklin 28:48
Oh, man, oh, let’s go. I’ll give it to my former boss, and he’ll boost array of Workday recommend some great books for me to read. He made every employee at Workday read a book called prediction machines, which is the economics of AI and that was back in 2018, before chat GPT existed. And so I’ll do him a favor and get him a copy so he can keep up with pay transparency.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 29:13
Prediction machines. I’m just writing that down actually. It’s a good one. All right. Well, Charlie, thank you so much. We’re so grateful for your time. You’re super busy guy got like a family at home busy stuff as well as the work stuff and keeping the industry straight. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today.

Charlie Franklin 29:29
Thanks, Chris. Y’all have a terrific community and thanks everyone for tuning in today. It’s fun to be a part of it.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 29:33
Love the partnership love it. I want to say also thank you. We’ll do a shout out to Sarah to Camille and to Mary for doing our we put you on the screen so listeners might not have seen you but we love you guys. We’re glad you chimed in in the chat with everybody else. I want to remind you CXR.works. It is the most trusted talent acquisition community in the world that I’m in charge of. So be sure to check that out. And then of course, we’d encourage you to head to CXR.works/learning you can check out everything we’ve got go going on there. And if you’ve got questions reach out directly, you know where to find us. We put our links up there and we’re happy to connect. And until then, I guess we’re gonna tell you, we’ll just see you next week. We’ll say goodbye, Charlie.

Charlie Franklin 30:08
Thanks, y’all. See you next week. Have a good Tuesday.

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