Chris Hoyt, CXR 
Was chatting. It was doing a little bit of a wobble.  I thought it was me. I took a Dramamine and I hung in there, but no, it’s fine.

Kyle Lagunas 0:10
I’m gonna figure that out.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:13
Let’s just don’t pound on your desk. That’s all.

Kyle Lagunas 0:16
It’s so passionate, you know?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:18
Yeah, yeah, you just lose your shit. I mean, it happens this is that this is that kind of show, Kyle,

Kyle Lagunas 0:24
HR man, or wherever you live.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:31
So I Can I ask about I know we just went live and it clicked on. Can I ask about the gift you’re just talking about? Or is it? Is it a secret? Which gift?

Kyle Lagunas 0:39
For my husband?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:40
The designed?

Kyle Lagunas 0:41
Oh, no, that’s no secret. Yeah, no.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:46
Are you are you designing it to put this in your house? Or is this

Kyle Lagunas 0:50
Yeah, yeah. No, I already did design it. I don’t know if you can see that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:54
Oh, I got it. Yep, that looks lovely.

Kyle Lagunas 0:57
And putting in a couple of wine fridges underneath there for all the stuff that needs to stay at a certain temp. Yeah.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:05
That’s fantastic.

Kyle Lagunas 1:06
Yeah, it was really cool. And little pro tip. I mean, because the counters are absolutely gorgeous. We got them out of the scraps of a counter place. They you know, you buy the whole slab for custom counters, that you don’t use the whole slab. We got it for $20 a foot. So I think it was like $250 $300 for those stones. It was awesome.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:27
Right? Yeah. Are you going to do a fast forward tic tock style video of how I built a 500 capacity Wine? No.

Kyle Lagunas 1:39
I did not build that. Let’s be clear. I just designed it on my it’s a pretty cool little piece of software. Just designed it on my tablet. And then I pointed at it because I might I have been through a bunch of carpenters and handy people in Brian’s family. And so I was like, This is what I want to see. Can you do this?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:01
I think that works out quite there is a skill in that too, though.

Unknown Speaker 2:04
Right? Yeah. It was closing a gap. Brian doesn’t conceptualize well, he needs to see to respond. So I also was helping him to see what I was doing for him.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:17
It makes sense. It’s a good it’s good partnerships. Good teamwork.

Kyle Lagunas 2:20
It also it’s really cool. If you guys are into I mean, you’re doing projects at your place in Bastrop. Chris like it, it’ll do a 3d render too. So you’ll you’ll lay it out in the CAD and then it’ll actually do a render that so you can look at it from multiple angles, multiple sides and take pictures of the model and then it renders it in 3d and like looks looks like almost a picture.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:40
Oh, that’s pretty cool.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 2:42
I went to Container Store to get some I’m turning a bedroom into a walk in closet. Oh, cool. And they did exactly that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:53
It’s for all of his hats.

Kyle Lagunas 2:55
I was just about to ask like for your dresses for your shoes. Like what are we you’re fur what are we putting in his closet is one

Gerry Crispin, CXR 3:02
Part that might be my you know, Burning Man. Dresses, but other than that, you know? It’s hats

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:11
Never got Gerry in a dress, a moo-moo and a tutu but oh, that’s not true, the Lucy dress

Gerry Crispin, CXR 3:15
That’s not true, I supported tutu Tuesdays.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:33
Well, I don’t know. I don’t know how much longer will last it’s three o’clock on a Friday and we’re live streaming but we do actually have a topic at hand. So are we are we ready to kind of jump into that? Okay, here we go.

CXR Announcer 3:48
Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcasts for Talent Acquisition and Talent Management listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting engaging and retaining the best talent We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 4:18
All right, if it’s your first time joining us I’m Chris Hoyt the president CareerXroads, this is the recruiting community podcast, where we invite folks from within the space to talk about stuff that’s top of mind. It is not usually wind sellers and construction, but you just you never know what you’re gonna get on here. If you are joining us live, we’d encourage you to jump into the chat stream that is I believe, going to be found on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube directly but we’re also streaming to Twitter and a couple of other places so you can check those out as well. If you’re interested in learning more about CareerXroads, you can just head to see CXR.works with that I’m going to invite my partner in crime in. Gerry, how are you today?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 4:57
Pleasant Good afternoon to you.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:00
it is indeed a pleasant day. I don’t know why we don’t have line already.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:04
I don’t know. That’s Oh man, I meant to I’m sorry.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:07
It hurts. My laziness hadn’t gotten out of this chair in the last three hours. I could

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:11
I could shorten that could shorten this podcast considerably.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:15
Or lengthen it. So we got we got a wonderful guest today. I think first time on the show, we’ve known this dude for a while. Let’s go ahead and bring him in from the greenroom. Kyle how are you?

Kyle Lagunas 5:25
Hiiii. I’m real good. This is my last call on for of the week. I am excited. Yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:35
there’s no excuse for us not to have any wine or something like that. We should have.

Kyle Lagunas 5:40
I mean, if I start now, I don’t. I don’t think I’ll end early. It’ll be late night.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:46
We’ll leave it streaming as we as we put our heads on the table. Look Kyle we jump in. For those who may not know who you are, I’m gonna give you a chance to give a little bit of an escalator pitch as to whom is Kyle overt Aptitude Research. Where did you come from? What do you do? And why should we care what you have to say today? Well, I

Kyle Lagunas 6:07
don’t know if you should, but it’ll be I’ll leave it for them to decide. But I’m Kyle Lagunas. I’m the Head of Research at our head of strategy at aptitude research. And my job is to sit at the intersection of innovation and adoption, and implementation to help vendors create more value add solutions for HR and talent professionals, talent leaders, and then on the other side, help those talent in HR organizations utilize these things, navigate on innovation cycles. I’ve been doing research in the space route for 12 years. I’m not the young spring chicken I used to be. But I’ve had a lot of fun along along the way.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 6:47
I love it, well we’re glad you joined us exciting stuff. We I just reminder for anybody who may dialed in, we have the live chat stream running. So if you want to say hello like Joe just did, how many Joe out in Florida. If you want to chime in there. You can also throw in your LinkedIn profile if you want to network with each other. But we’ll go ahead and throw it up on the screen. Let’s do for Joe since he’s the first one. There we go. Where’s our reaction for that? Nothing. Feel free to join the conversation. We’ll throw those questions up and take part in that so. So Kyle, the reason that you’re on you’re working on some new research that we thought sounded kind of interesting, and that we thought some folks would get a real kick out of Do you want to share kind of a little bit about what’s going on over at Aptitude Research?

Kyle Lagunas 7:32
Yeah, absolutely. So we just released this research report called the the New Wave of HR Transformation. And it is all about the state of automation in our space. Automation is I think, something that we have been utilizing whether we knew it or not, for, I’d say better part of a better part of a decade at least. But we are entering this new stage where we’re an early majority. So it’s not just people running at the very forefront of being pioneers. This is actually the majority of organizations 76% of the 300 HR organizations we surveyed are utilizing in some shape or fashion, which is good. But then the question we have is like, well, what are they really getting out of it. And we found that 60% of companies had increased their investment in automation tech last year, specifically in HR. And we also found that 62% of CIOs said that it was HR automation projects, or equal to or more important than any other in the enterprise. And the number one driver is improving employee experience. It was like something like 40 to 60% of people said that that was the number one thing they’re trying to improve with automation. But only 3% of the companies we surveyed ranked it as one of the top outputs of their efforts, like they only 3% said they got lift in employee experience so far. So it’s like, we’ve got budget for these things. We’ve got buy in for these things. The IT org is aligned behind these things. And HR is maybe going to shift the bad

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:16
Lagging. I think lagging was the term they are struggling.

Kyle Lagunas 9:19
Yeah, they’re struggling. And I look I mean, Chris, you’ve implemented some really innovative programs in your career. Gerry, you’ve been alongside folks doing the same thing advising for a long time. I think we all know we’ve given HR and talent leaders have not needed to be the foremost technical expert to in order to implement new ways of working better ways of working with something like automation. This is where it gets different. If your champion for the project doesn’t understand what these technologies are or how they work, at least at a functional level, then how can they actually design solutions that are going to give the lift to the pro grams, they’re trying to impact if you say you want to improve employee experience, because extremely lot like that’s a big term, right? There’s there’s a lot that goes into employee experience, you don’t know specifically the pain points that you’re trying to solve for, then you’re just buying more stuff. And that’s something we’ve done in the past.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 10:19
It seems to me, though, Kyle, and I really liked your opinion on that one of the I don’t want to call it a workaround, but to some degree it is, is to reorganize that I see HR and talent acquisition leaders, reorganizing the folks who work for them to incorporate expertise within that framework. So head of TA or HR operations, for example, tends to be somebody who is pretty knowledgeable relative to some of the tech issues that they have to deal with. But that’s not everybody. And, and but it’s I think it’s one of the issues that need to need to grow a bit.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:06
Well, I’ll add to that, before you started college. Gerry, are you talking more about our latent right? Are you talking more about a sort of a liaison in the IT group? Or are we thinking about somebody who actually is housed within HR,

Gerry Crispin, CXR 11:19
I’m not a fan of liaison of being the being in a function and, and depending upon another function IT to say, to prioritize my needs. Because then I have to bribe them, I have to do an awful lot of other kinds of things in order to get the work done. And I’ve been there done that. But yeah, that I do want I do want someone who is knowledgeable enough and respected enough by their IT counterpart, that fundamentally they can work with them to ensure that we aren’t de prioritized, if you will.

Unknown Speaker 12:01
That’s exactly it. Gerry, it’s look, if in the past you were going to evaluate a new system, like let’s just say applicant tracking system, we all use them now. Your IT partner is going to evaluate your processes and your requirements, which is the technical process to identify what functionality and features do you need? What system capabilities do you need on the technology side, and then they’re gonna go and get those for you. But the IT partner only has one facet of expertise, which is the technology, if they don’t understand your processes, if they don’t understand your priorities, if they don’t understand the nuances of your work, why it’s challenging, or why, you know, they’re not going to be looking at those requirements and saying, Could we optimize this process instead of just automating it how it currently is, you know, they’ll they won’t be able to solution direct like really, you know, they won’t be able to consult. And that’s where the gap is, I think the other challenge of relying too heavily on it, I mean, they should be there helping you, but they should be deep domain experts in AI and automation. You should be you should be literate enough versed enough to tell them yes or no, that’s what I’m saying. Or that’s not what I’m saying. Because otherwise, they’re going to do their best effort to design something for you. And you all know the amount of effort that goes into implementation and change management, if it’s not working the way that you expected it to, but it’s working the way they designed it to that project is not going to be successful, you’re gonna lose a lot of credibility because at go live, people expect it to work. And it’s not always working.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:51
I think we’ve all seen careers shift or or change or employment change at the end of projects like that, because of the trust that is lost. If for no other reason, right? The trust is lost if the if the execution is not on point, just to level set out when we’re talking in the research that you guys have done when you’re talking about automation in this world, like can we level set on what I’m what that means?

Kyle Lagunas 14:13
Oh, I love you for asking because people think that automation and AI are synonymous. They’re not, you know. So automation, for me is taking repeatable tasks. And using technology to do it with a computer. Automation could be something as simple as having knockout questions in the Apply process. Someone gives you an answer that doesn’t qualify them, then they get an automatic rejection. Intelligent Automation would be to marking them as rejected or not qualified and then having a delayed response to give the experience to them that somebody still looked at their resume and decided they were not qualified.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 14:53
So no, I didn’t get disqualified within 10 seconds of applying. Nobody even looked at my resume.

Kyle Lagunas 14:58
And so in that example, there are two There are two things, you can either write what’s called an automation recipe. If this happens then that. And you can say, all right, if they don’t give me the answer response I want, then I’m going to wait for 12 hours. And then I will send an a rejection response. If you have Intelligent Automation providers in your CRM or your ATS, they might already be able to infer, like, Hey, this is this was an hourly job, it should be automatically given them a response, you need to give people responses quickly. This is a senior level role. This one should be eight hours or more, just to give them that better sense. So automation is literally just moving a workflow automatically into intelligence, the AI part of it is in making inferences in augmenting what you would have designed directly yourself.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 15:50
Okay, and those are pretty baseline automations. Those are pretty baseline automations.

Kyle Lagunas 15:55
And I think that’s like, if you sat down with an any HR leader, and started to talk about it this way. I think they would when no one has these jobs are really complicated to be an HR talent and leader today, right? Like, they have to be intelligent enough to be like, Okay, that makes a ton of sense. That sounds super simple. I think the challenge that we’re having is on the vendor, community side, there’s a lot of very aspirational selling, and in big dreams and big transformations, you know, and like, all this wild innovation that is going to sell that well to VCs. And so for HR and talent leaders, they’re like, hey, this sounds real cute, but I just need a CRM, or I just need an ATS, you know, so they’re, they’re going to check out a little bit and be like, alright, well, it sounds like you got a little magic wand, you’re gonna wait for me to get me that stuff. That sounds great. So just throw that into whatever my licensing fee is for the core system, they don’t understand that in order to get that lift out of the solution that they’re being sold. They have to work closely with the vendor to design those solutions. Like you will automate you know what I mean? Does that make sense? It’s like, I have transformation now. But you don’t you have a system that can support a lot more lift if you take the time to design that solution?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:07
Well, that does make sense. But it also it’s not what we typically I hate to say typically, but it’s just not what we typically see a lot of leaders sometimes get stuck doing. And that’s getting technology, before they necessarily even understand what problems they’re solving for. Right? Or just getting text from text.

Kyle Lagunas 17:24
Oh, absolutely. But right again, you’ve sat in the seat and Gerry, you have to think about how much bandwidth you have as a talent leader, HR leader, you do not have all day every day to think about what would be an ideal, like, what is the biggest problem I’m gonna solve for? Well, your biggest problems are super complicated, right? So you’re like, Well, maybe I’ll come to this, like, I’m not quite sure exactly what I need out of a CRM, but I know that just philosophically what it should be doing for me, so I’m gonna buy it. I’m gonna take a Field of Dreams approach, I’m gonna buy it, and then the best practices will come.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 18:00
So I’m gonna transform for transformation sake, but not actually wrapping my head around it.

Kyle Lagunas 18:06
I mean, honestly, see, that’s what that was one of the biggest drivers of automation. Coming back to automation specifically, that was one of the biggest drivers of automation over the last several years is the CHR. O ‘s agenda is aligning to CIO CTOs. We need to automate as much as we can to get as much cost savings as we can not just like reducing headcount, but not continuing to grow headcount as we scale our operations, we need automation, because it’s more cost effective. And it helps us to be more agile. But CSRS don’t know what that like at the functional level in each of their departments. That means, so you see every running out to get a chatbot. And they don’t know that conversational AI can be applied in dozens of ways, you know, and how it can be done. Well, and can why is my camera’s still shaking again, really sorry.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 18:53
There’s a there’s an earthquake where you are.

Kyle Lagunas 18:55
I told you, I just get so fired up. But so you didn’t you would see in RFPs, like chatbot, like just as a line item, we need a chatbot for our career site, and then not articulating Well, do you want that chatbot to actually be screening candidates? Do you want it to be like hosting the Apply process through chat? Do you want it to be an SMS based chat? You know, like? Well, I don’t know.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 19:17
So the first and primary issue is, is deconstructing the processes of workflow so that you can identify those issues that are repetitive, identify those issues that that fundamentally no longer are relevant because they’re 19th century approaches to how we say no to someone versus the way in which we should be doing it if we had the resources that are at our fingertips. So fundamentally, what I see is most corporations not having done that not really having thought through the process they want. end up getting the tool, and then when that too We’ll get configured, they go, Oh, I don’t think we’re ready for that just don’t turn that feature off for now sits in the content. And then by the time they’re finished with all of that they’ve forgotten the stuff they’ve got on and off. And the thing sucks. And, and the, you know, the recruiters are bitching about this this ATS or this CRM or this application for market research or market recruiting, recruitment marketing is isn’t working really well. And part of it is, the fundamental problem was no one really sat down with the group and then mapped on a on a board old style, however you want to do it, what what we do and what we really need to change with the help of those tools?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:48
Yeah, let me Joe. Good. Joe, we’re glad you’re still hanging out with us. On a Friday, he’s probably got a beer open, I found that the effort to implement and maintain automated technologies is often underestimated.

Kyle Lagunas 21:04
Oh, it absolutely is. Because Gerry’s, it actually aligns perfectly what you’re saying. It’s not just buying and implementing a piece of tech, it is an exercise in optimizing processes. You know, it the so the reason why we titled this research, the next wave of HR audit of transformation, is because the last great wave was the move to cloud. And we thought moving to clouds, we great we can, we could get more like best of breed solution, we could build our own stacks, it could be you know, we get end to end reporting everything be integrated. Not that at all we really did was just move everything we had into a new like this. Everything’s like new architecture. You know, it’s like, alright, well, here we are in the cloud. But like, what did we actually solve for and not? Not a whole lot. And that’s because the move to cloud was extremely complicated and took a lot of lift and alignment. Imagine then trying to go through and prioritize which processes you optimize, and then getting all the buy in for it. We can’t even agree on what quality of hire is, right?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 22:09
Okay, so you raise a really good point there. So I guess in the research that you’ve done, you have to see a couple of buckets, floating the top of reasons why TA leaders are moving or moving in that? Yep.

Kyle Lagunas 22:20
Yep, there’s a few things. The first is HR. Just in spirit, you know, in our function, we have a part of our job has been to protect the business. And so there is just an innate risk aversion in the HR organization. And so I think that any lack of a lot of the I think the big gaps is like just fear factor for oh, how do we not introduce bias into this process? It’s like, well, automating, like simple, something as simple as interview scheduling doesn’t really bring in bias, you know, so that’s safe. Identifying the use cases that are low risk requires you to identify that there are levels of risk. But HR tends to be just like, not managing risk, but de risking altogether. I think that the other half is we want to be experts, we have limited credibility in the business, right? We don’t want to acknowledge that we have potentially major knowledge gaps. And so I think that leaning into those gaps, like connecting with informed subject matter experts, building partnerships with it, is really helpful. And not just, you know, operating what we got to close with this knowledge gap, essentially. So I think those are two, like just fundamental things that will be different. And I think it’s also being able to partner with vendors, trusting them. I mean, I think a lot of folks, we keep our vendor partnerships at arm’s length. But in this in this, we’re not, because we’re not just buying a piece of technology, we do need best practice, we do need that consultative approach. You either need to engage in the pro services that your vendor offers, or find a consultant that has expertise here. But you need to, you need to have that partnership. But if you don’t have the skills in house, or if you don’t have the capacity to like, I don’t want to just say it’s a skills gap, you don’t have capacity, you’re going to need to augment that project, because it’s it’s really critical.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 24:21
Yeah, I would agree that and I think we are seeing some organizations who get that, almost on that that consulting arm where they’re breaking out of what they have traditionally provided and sort of sort of spreading the breadth of what services they do offer consultative or breaking it up into almost widgetized thing. Every element within at least the talent acquisition side. I can’t speak for the HR side, but the talent acquisition all of the processes or maybe managing elements of the recruitment or just or just RPO in one, one function, you know, that sort of thing. I think we’re seeing more flexibility come out of the market.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 24:55
Kyle, I really want to ask you though, let’s assume that that we Do it well, that people, you know, think through their processes, they, they try to identify the right pieces for their tech stack that would complement where they want to go with those processes. And now they implement them what? What would we see as an outcome that we should be measuring? And and when I think about that, I think about, you know, cost quality, you know, and time. And it seems to, it seems to me over time, just because I’m old, that had a lot of those numbers haven’t changed a hell of a lot over a relatively long time when we’ve improved the technology. And yet, it still still takes 60 days to get somebody in. So it seems to me there’s something else missing in the decision processes, that has not been addressed by the way the corporation operates.

Kyle Lagunas 25:58
So it’s an excellent question, a couple of things. I think that with the use cases that we are exploring in HR, automation, and talent acquisition automation, we should be focusing on fundamental gaps, which are oftentimes just work sheer workload, I mean, looking at the volume and pace of hiring over the last two years, it has been absolutely insane. In healthcare, it is still absolutely insane. And a lot of it is just processing applicants and candidates. And so I think if you look at just helping to close some of that gap, to augment your existing recruiting workforce, you know, reducing those repeatable tasks like resume review, people are terrified of, of candidate scoring. It’s, it’s actually doing what your recruiter should be doing. But it’s doing it in an auditable and discoverable way to make sure that they’re doing it well like using the right data at scale. And so just with something like candidate scoring, you’re prioritizing an app, a recruiters inbox, and so they’re not going to just keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling scrolling, they’re going to start with the ones that are the most obvious fit as what I always call it, not the best fit, but like obvious fit candidates, which is what a recruiter would be doing anyway, they’re not looking for that diamond in the rough, trying to get a slate as quickly as possible, and get it out the door. Same thing with interview scheduling, do you know like, that’s one thing that that they hate, they’re not hiring managers, personal assistant going back and forth, trying to find the best time for them and holding time, several time blocks on their calendar and then waiting, like then having to do it again, because the hiring manager didn’t like hold them themselves. You know, like that’s, that’s fundamental stuff that slows us down and has an impact on candidate experience, and recruiter productivity. Those are two, like really simple use cases that have a lot of just innate value, you don’t need a ton of adaption and training to get lift out of those use cases. Which is why I think that’s where you see people making investments in those ways. And then the outcome Gerry is not necessarily reducing headcount in recruiting or coordinator teams, it’s just having recruiting and coordinator teams that aren’t working 60 hours every week, which What a novel idea

Gerry Crispin, CXR 28:22
They’re not. So they’re not burning out. So the retention shouldn’t be better. And they’re all there. The the perception of candidates should be higher, because because they’ve gotten the attention they needed to not only coming in, but also when they’re not going forward, et cetera, et cetera. So I do think there’s measurable outcomes that we should and we should always be looking for.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:48
Yeah. Well, so Kyle, let me let me give you one more opportunity. I’ve got another question for you. But before I ask you, let me give you another opportunity to talk a little bit about the new wave of HR transformation report and aptitude. Do you want to talk just for a second about that? I’ll put a link in the chat if anybody wants to go grab that. It’s a it’s a free download. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 29:08
Yeah, absolutely. And this is this is one that is it, this is definitely future focus. But it is around this new model of of automation and AI that is emerging in the IT side and is being evaluated and utilized across the enterprise and other use cases which is orchestration. So essentially, it is utilizing automation and machine learning are cross platforms, solve for multiple problems at the same time. If you open a req, you have you know, all of those workflows of like getting req approval and then get calibrating with the hiring manager to get candidates that they’re going to like and then you start sourcing and start emailing people with something like orchestration a requisition is created, and all of that work starts instantly because it No Assistant orchestration system knows those things are going to happen anyway. Historically, these are the candidates that display But fit this profile is going to start saving time for you. And you also don’t have to program all of those recipes. That is just algorithmic problem solving. So we’re seeing this in call centers, we’re seeing this in manufacturing, and it is evaluating it. But what we found in the research was that those companies who are lower in maturity, for their automation approach automation strategies in HR, their IT leaders for something like 40%, less likely to even consider orchestration investments in HR and TA now, and I think orchestration is going to be a huge accelerator of innovation here. And for the companies, the HR teams are falling behind, that’s the big risk factor. It’s not necessarily that your projects, your automation projects, not gonna be like successful out of the gate, you can always iterate, it’s more so that you are going to be getting losing credibility with your primary technology partner, which is it. And so this model, I think we’re probably about five years before we see it coming in to that early majorities stage. But it’s already happening elsewhere in the enterprise. And that’s something that we fail to look at in a lot of our tech analysis is just focusing in work tech, HR, this is something that’s emerging in other other markets. And I think it’s something that can be a huge benefit for us that we need to be ready for.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 31:18
I love it. All right. And for those who are just on the audio, and maybe not not watching the video, it’s it’s AptitudeResearch.com It’s exact, it’s exactly how it sounds. There’s a research report section, so you can find that in their new wave of HR transformation. Kind of, I love your outlook on that. Let me ask you now, if you were going to write a book, your own book, on this topic that you’re so passionate about, what would the title of that book be today?

Kyle Lagunas 31:45
Hmm. God, I don’t, I don’t know. Something. Something something Real, honestly, because I think I don’t think it’s doom and gloom. I think it’s all about getting real, like what are the real gaps in the in the HR talent acquisition organization, but some of them are not like my, if I were practitioner leader, they’re not my gaps, there are things that I’m going to have to overcome. So maybe it’s just Automation Realness, you know, it’s like, acknowledging, you need to build better inroads with compliance and data security going like beforehand, because they’re gonna have all kinds of questions. It’s building relationships with IT beforehand, because they’re gonna otherwise try and push you around. It’s knowing who’s doing actually what in the market. So you when you go to art building RFP, you’re going to get what you need from the market. So probably something like that. On an automated testing, I mean, sexual, it’d be funny. It’d be intensely insightful. And it will have my headshot, like really close up on the on the like, front cover, like super super big.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:47
I’m having like a judge Jack flashback. Does anybody remember?

Kyle Lagunas 32:55
I had as much ego as Jack. Oh, my gosh

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:58
All right. So who Kyle who gets who gets the first copy of it? You’re not allowed to say, Jerry,

Kyle Lagunas 33:04
My mom, duh.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:07
That’s wonderful.

Kyle Lagunas 33:09
She’ll put it up on her fridge. And she like my fans. I don’t know why she’s an old lady all of a sudden, but

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:14
Well, she’s got a hell of a magnet. Or it’s not a very big book,

Kyle Lagunas 33:17
Actually I have a picture of her up here somewhere. Yeah, she’s over here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:21
All right. Well, Kyle, thank you so much for joining us, man. We know your time is precious. And we’re super grateful that you made it here.

Kyle Lagunas 33:27
It was so fun. Anytime I’m having you join the conversation. Thanks for having me. Good to see you too.

Unknown Speaker 33:32
All right, I’m gonna put you both in the greenroom. Don’t go anywhere hanging out. Just want to remind everybody CXR.works/events. You can see what’s going on. We’re back. Live Events are coming up, they kick off in March, we’re going to see in person we’re on the road. We’ll also be at a couple of conferences. And then of course, I want to remind everybody, we launched it last week. If you enrolled in our new learning series, CXR.works/learning. If you enrolled in that last week, when it was open to everybody you can still go in it’s not necessarily open to anybody to newly enroll but you can go in if you had already enrolled in you can finish that workout. And I guess we’ll just see you when we see you next time. We’re doing it live. We’ll see Tuesday is our is our actually mixed live podcast. So we’ll see you then. And I think we got another surprise Podcast coming up in a few weeks. So stay tuned.

CXR Announcer 34:16
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