Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:00
I think that’s brilliant. I think that’s 100% the way that travel should be planned is around NASCAR and f1.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 0:06
Is there anything going on in Israel that could detract you to come?

Chris Havrilla 0:13
Yes, sponsorship would be great.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:16
It’s peanuts.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 0:17
I don’t have that capability

Chris Havrilla 0:19
On travel peso probation.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:24
You’re only getting 400,000 pesos to travel this year well, Israel will be fun. That’s That’s right Gerry you have that coming up? You’re going with Barb.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 0:38
Barb is going, Daniel Monahans going gotta hope the whole crew

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:42
That’s gonna be a blast. Yeah, Tel Aviv. It’s a bucket list place for me.

Chris Havrilla 0:46
Yeah, for sure. I’ve not been.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:49
Oh, so it’s not too late. Chris.

Chris Havrilla 0:51
I know. It’s not too late. I just need a little sponsorship. And I think a lot of us have had a lot of personal travel lately.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:03
Travel, Yeah, travels looking weird. We just went through our calendar here at the house last night. And I was looking at conferences and work trips and what, like what’s coming up and starting in March? We’re basically screwed. I mean, it’s the entire like, it just kicks off and it doesn’t stop. It’s not as bad as it was pre pandemic. But we’re it’s getting close.

Chris Havrilla 1:23
Yeah, yeah, mine mine looks. This is the quiet period. So I’m trying to use that time to just do some planning. My counterpart and I are like, you know, full and on less than what like we’re literally holding up in DC and, and like, you know, charting the course of, you know, what will be the future.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 1:46
For me, I’m, I’m I’m going to be closing on a house in about two weeks.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:51
So when is the party at the at the new house Gerry?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 1:55
I have I have trouble figuring out how I’m going to actually move so it’s, you know, you got to wait until I actually get there but I have I have moved about 50 bottles of wine to safe place within a block.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:10
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a bit. Wait. If you are if you have ever been on a call with Gerry a virtual call or you have watched this podcast before, I want to do this really quickly. Look at Gerry’s background. Where are all the where are all the things that hang up on the walls? Cande’s stuff and go Scrolling back up there fullscreen. Oh, he’s ready. Oh my gosh. Wow. is ready to go. Not the Gerry.

Chris Havrilla 2:40
What’s happening right?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:43
The one we need but not the one we deserve.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 2:46
This is obsessive compulsive behavior here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:49
Oh my gosh. All right. So we’re going to talk today, Chris, I’m so glad to have you. We’re going to talk today about what leaders should be looking for Talent Acquisition Professional be watching for Are we ready to get started?

Chris Havrilla 2:58
Let’s do this.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:59
Alright, let’s do it. Let’s jump in.

CXR Announcer 3:02
Welcome to the CXR channel. Our premier podcast for Talent Acquisition and Talent Management. listen in as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting engaging and retaining the best talent. We’re glad you’re here.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:31
All right, everybody want to welcome to another episode. This is actually episode 356 of the recruiting community Podcast. I’m Chris Hoyt, I’m your host today. And we are welcoming you to just sit down and chat with us for about 15 or 20 minutes we do these in snackable bites, we pull in ta leaders, practitioners, folks in the space that we just love and adore. We’ve got one of those on today to talk about what’s top of mind for them. And what’s what’s going on that we think that you should know about a couple of things you should know I’m gonna type below in the live chat. If you are with us on I think a couple different channels. If you’re with us on Facebook or YouTube, if you’re with us on LinkedIn, there should be a live chat piece there. You can say hello, you can throw in your LinkedIn profile, you can just do whatever you want in there. Well don’t do whatever you want. But you can do some stuff in there. And if you’ve got questions for our guests today, we’ll go ahead and throw them up on the screen for you check that out. So you can interact with us directly and we’ll put them up on the screen, if appropriate. And make sure that you get a chance to connect with everybody and talk a couple things. I want to remind everybody if you or someone that you know in the space is looking for work as a recruiter CXR.work/jobs. We pull all of our member companies about 100 or so member companies, we pull their systems for recruiting jobs. So if you’re looking for a recruiting role, or you’ve got people in your space that you know have been impacted, and you want to share that with him at CXR.works/jobs and we’d encourage you to spread the word and let some folks know there are still some organizations out there that are hiring for TA talent. We’re going to talk about a couple of other things too. But before we do that, I want to welcome everybody out of the green room. Gerry, welcome to the show. How are you going to

Gerry Crispin, CXR 5:06
Pleasant good morning to you.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:08
Good to see you, my man. And of course, we have the lovely and talented, the always amazing. Chris Havrilla.

Chris Havrilla 5:11
Top of the morning to ya’ll

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:12
How are you, Chris?

Chris Havrilla 5:17
I’m great. How about you?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 5:19
Oh, wonderful. Look, before we jump in really quickly, Chris, why don’t for those who may not know you? Why don’t you kind of give us that escalator pitch of who is Chris Havrilla? What you do over at Oracle? And why should we be listening to what you have to say?

Chris Havrilla 5:35
That part? I’m not sure I have an answer for. But my name is Chris Havrilla I am with with Oracle, Head of Product Strategy for Oracle Cloud HCM specifically around the talent side. So that’s a it’s a cool role. It’s like half kind of internally focused on what are our investment strategies? How do we connect that with our marketing and sales, messaging, our partner strategies, our product development, product management, and all of our customer success organizations. And then the other half of it is advocacy and advisory for our customers. And when I say advocacy, it’s like kind of being the voice of the customer, you know, for our investment strategies, just what they asked for, but actually listening to what their problems are and their challenges and what they need, what the art of the possible is with our technology. And the other side is advisory. And that’s how do you apply it to kind of get those outcomes that you’re trying to get. So it’s a super cool role for somebody like me, that came out of HR, IT research advisory can’t find my place in the world, still try to solve really big problems around work workforce workplace, and I think this is a cool place to do it. So

Chris Hoyt, CXR 6:52
I think you’re in the perfect spot. Because for a very long time before you land in this spot, you were always the person to talk to you about what are you seeing what’s going on in the space. And that’s sort of what we’re going to talk about today and a little bit, which is kind of why we invited you in. We don’t have to talk about that we can get a little crazy people the feed might drop, but that’s okay. What what do you tell? I mean, there’s been a lot of talk about what’s going on in this space. Gerry mentioned the other day that I think Gerry, you sat in on a session about how holograms are going to be big for recruiting now I’m scratching my head with that one. We’re hearing a lot about learning and development. We’re hearing a lot about we were talking about this before the show started survivor’s guilt with a lot of these leaders in the TA space people that are really struggling. Is there anything sort of top of mind for you, Chris? Like when we say what what should ta professionals know right now, like what what comes to mind for you that you would want to share?

Chris Havrilla 7:45
You know, to me, I think helping organizations think about talent holistically, right and accessing talent versus just acquiring talent, you know, we’ve kind of, especially in TA, I think, you know, have been the go to for solving all the problems of an organization. You know, whether that’s attrition, whether that’s, you know, a growth, whether that’s a shift in something, or you know, all of a sudden, it’s just like we need more better, faster, more better, faster, instead of really looking at how do we access talent, which goes beyond just jobs and roles and really talking about skills and capabilities. But I think that goes into how do you be a talent advisor, I think TA has always been uniquely positioned to see what’s going on in an organization in a lot of realms, and don’t use that power, that knowledge, that insight, that experience, you know, whether they’re being asked to or not, or whether they just insert themselves. And so I think especially now, you know, as things shift and change the people that can do that, that can look at things holistically, or position best on,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 8:59
I want to be okay, so I like to be the devil’s advocate here.

Chris Havrilla 9:02
Love it.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:03
But oh my god, the term talent advisor, kid, like, seriously, how long? How long? Are we going to be trying to make recruiters or a level of recruiter into some sort of talent advisor? And And are we seeing any organizations that are really crushing that because I know we occasionally hear stories about how we transformed into talent advisors, and they’re better partners in the organization. And I don’t disagree with that. But is that really still the kind of the holy grail of, of recruiting opportunity for us?

Chris Havrilla 9:32
Um, if I take the terminology out of it, because I get torqued up with terms and not just what it

Chris Hoyt, CXR 9:39
Don’t say war on talent.

Chris Havrilla 9:40
I’m not gonna happen. Because it sounds like we’re like creating war on people. That’s not okay. Like I you know, to me, Look, no matter what the issue is in an organization, you’re not going to solve it without people, right? It’s, you know, nine times out of 10. I don’t care if it’s supply chain issues or the obvious labor and skill shortages? You know, whether it’s trust, whether it’s you know, I mean, the the DEIB the host of issues that organizations are faced with, I don’t know how you don’t do it without people. So, you know, to me, who’s looking at that holistically, right, how we take people get the best of them to, Oh, that’s awesome. What a professional love the

Chris Hoyt, CXR 10:29
Sound effects are bound on our show.

Chris Havrilla 10:33
Exactly. A very important, as you can see, but now, I do think that, you know, like, who’s kind of looking at, at all of that, and how work workforce workplace is, you know, is kind of harmonized to, to do that right to serve the stakeholders serve, you know, fix the problems, address the issues, whatever. So who’s looking at that holistically, who’s looking at what we have internally, what’s external, how they can, you know, help unlock the performance and potential of the organization? Like who’s looking at that. So call it what you will, it doesn’t really matter who’s gonna do it, who’s gonna step up? And go, you know, what, these folks have the skills and capabilities to do that, and they’re right here, or they’re over there or whatever, look at the work. Look at the people. And so who’s going

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:28
to do that? Okay, so so I’m gonna ask question to both of you, right? Because we’ve all been doing this a while.

Chris Havrilla 11:34
Yeah,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 11:34
Gerry gets a double credit. So so like, what my question is, like, how far backwards Do you think we are? How far how far of a setback Do you think we’re gonna see now with all of these incredible layoffs, we’ve got all this incredible recruiting talent that’s looking for work, tech industry hit harder than any other, right? Certainly, certainly in the headlines, we’re seeing a lot of that we know a lot of people that are looking for work, we’re trying to help the people, you’re gonna outsource look for it. How do you think that impacts the more strategic approach to recruitment as a, as a recruiting partner, as a partner, the business do you think? Do you think it’s a big setback? Or do you think this will be fine in six months, when everybody goes, Oh, shit, we shouldn’t have laid off so many recruiters.

Chris Havrilla 12:17
You know, I think if I go back to the overall problem, it’s, you know, regardless of the situation we’re in, you know, we keep trying to, you know, react and look backwards, instead of kind of looking forwards. Right. And I think, you know, I think the companies and the people that are trying to solve for this stuff, the ones who win are the ones that are kind of absorbing the change and taking advantage of it, and as quickly as possible, that, that scales and, and, and using, and doing it intelligently, you know, which I think is, is really how data and technology kind of comes into play here. How do we take all of this? And go, okay, you know, this is we’re dealing with what we’re dealing with. Now, what, right, and I think, you know, I think the people that can do that the quickest to solve for that is you still got to know what the work is. And you still got to know how that is going to get done, that work is going to get done. And it’s not always right, pure jobs and roles. So the more I think we think about skills and capabilities, because, you know, the shelf life of the skill just keeps getting shorter and shorter and shorter.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 13:27
Yeah.

Chris Havrilla 13:28
When nobody understands the work. So who’s just gonna step up and do it? Like, because nobody actually quote owns that,

Gerry Crispin, CXR 13:35
Right. That hits me, though, about what you’re saying, Chris is two things. One, is that willingness to step up? Yes. isn’t an easy skill, for me to teach someone else. Because embedded in that is the attitude, that I’m willing to take the risk, that I’m wrong, that people that I’m going to offend people that I’m going to whatever I can teach them to speak more, you know, creatively, effectively, from their perspective, rather than rather than do it in a way that they’re going to offend someone else. But the fact of the matter is, unless we hire people who are not risk averse, right? We will, we’re never going to execute on on change. We’re never going to inflate as you pointed out influence I have a voice that influences our peers and colleagues. Because we do have access to a lot of insights and data and, and points of view both internal and external. It’d be very useful for most of our businesses, but most people most of our peers are often afraid to to talk about that except to their closest friends. And, and we need to be able to be much more able to step up, if you will?

Chris Havrilla 15:03
Well, I think that’s an excellent point. And I can just tell you, from my perspective how I’ve always managed that, because I’m pretty clear that I don’t have the answers, right. I, I, I know I don’t have the answers. I mean, this whole notion of experts and gurus and all that stuff, right? I know I don’t have answers, but I know, I’m totally willing to find it. Right. So I do think you have to learn how to manage that risk. Right? And, and what’s kind of a good risk reduction methodology of stuff you aren’t sure about is really kind of a design thinking approach. Right? And so to me, it’s how I go about it not that I have answers. And so I think when we release ourselves from the responsibility of being experts, with all the answers, that we’re way ahead of the game, because then it becomes how do we how do we find that? How do we facilitate that? How do we master the art of figuring out who needs to kind of be in the room to help solve for it? Um, it, I think, learning to ask questions, so that you can kind of get to the heart of things, and understanding it’s not kind of input process output, right? Here’s the eight steps to get here. And it’s super linear, and it always works. It’s not that’s not how things work anymore, right. So I think it’s really like what questions do I need to ask, what outcomes Am I trying to get and in the middle of that is float in you.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 16:32
So what I’m what I’m hearing is that we need a masterclass from you in how to step up without getting fired. And that probably has some real value for a lot of people out there, by and large, have good thoughts. But you know, they only whisper them in your ear, they don’t really tell the right people, here’s what we need to do, from my, my honest perspective,

Chris Havrilla 16:58
Or let’s get in a room and figure it out together. And I’ll I’ll own it, I’ll facilitate this. But, you know, let’s just let’s just sit down, figure it out. Who does this? Who’s where’s the pain more? But I do I think if I look at what I’ve tried to do, is it’s always been a little bit of a design, design thinking approach, get the right people together, tap.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 17:23
Chris, I think we got another master class.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 17:26
So look, I appreciate Gerry’s talking about. But as a as a reminder, I’m just going to interject this as a reminder here, we launched a new learning series last week, we did it on the candidate candidate experience day. Last week did a partner with hr.com, we did a partnership Talent Board for the candidate experience awards. And it’s a series of various classes. The first one we launched was foundations of the candidate experience. We did that with a Elaine Orler, Ed Newman, obviously Gerry Crispin on here. And of course, Kevin Grossman, who is president, the other three being the founders of the town board. And it’s free today is the last day that you can register to take it, it’s open to absolutely anybody you don’t finish, you can take it today. But it does it does sort of bring up the topic or sort of approach the topic both of you’re talking about is this need for more learning, like a collaborative sort of learning experience. Right? And so is that the type of course you think, Chris, that somebody? Or what kind of course somebody should sit through or that should go through in order to sort of maybe become less risk averse? In your opinion?

Chris Havrilla 18:38
Yeah, cuz I think it’s just trying to take charge of that risk. All design thinking really is is a risk reduction methodology for some complex business problems have been solved for yet, right. So I think if you do take that kind of approach, that if, you know, like you, you kind of start, you know, because it’s all about, right, what, you know, what’s desirable, right? What’s feasible, what can we actually do? And what’s viable? What can we actually, you know, kind of implement, and, you know, without losing profitability, or at least getting the value out of the cost of our employee,

Gerry Crispin, CXR 19:21
At least doing this Chris, we would test the notion of nature, nurture whether or not whether or not we can nurture more folks who can step up or whether you know, it’s just, they just are born and to not, to not step up. And I hate to think that that’s true to some degree. That’s trying to get some folks to do that. I like it.

Chris Havrilla 19:51
It’s a it’s a choice because I do think that you do need people that want the structure and like here’s, here’s how we do this, but then we need you know, You kind of need people that are willing to get in and solve the problem. And I think the biggest barrier to that is just releasing responsibility of of having all the answers and doing that, you know, that kind of linear type of approach. But you know, we still need people to execute once we make some decisions, once we find, you know, proofs of concept, and need to scale it out. Like there’s no wrong answer here. It’s taking the path that you’re most comfortable with, and want to go on.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 20:28
But I hear elements within what you’re saying, Chris, I hear elements of ego. So do you think part of that is for leadership, like leadership, letting go of a couple of, you know, a couple of notions that they’re supposed to have all the answers or that they’re not supposed to make a mistake? You know, that sort of thing? Is there? Is there a piece of that?

Chris Havrilla 20:46
Exactly?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 20:48
Yes.

Chris Havrilla 20:49
Yeah, I mean, because think about what we’re saying, right? In the way things have always been since the kind of, I don’t know what industrial revolution is really, management and leadership was about command and control. You have all the answers, you tell people what to do, how to do it. Here’s the process. And this really is a fundamental shift. And, you know, we’ve been talking about the future of work and workforce and workplace for a long time. But how much have we talked about that future of management leadership? And I do think it’s a very, very different model, it’s more of a commitment and collaboration with somebody who’s going to solve the problems, and you’re helping them, you know, with, you know, what are the questions? What are the outcomes, you know, maybe you’re still telling people what those outcomes are, why we want to get there really connect them to those outcomes. But they get to figure out how and you support them in how that’s done, making sure they have the right information, the right tools to make decisions and take action, that you’re supporting that that effort. And so it is more of a commitment and collaboration. So it sounds kind of soft and fluffy. I do think it’s a high empathy model, it’s, you now kind of work for them. And you, you know, you’re just in charge of helping them uncover and unlock their potential performance. But it’s also a high accountability model, right? You hold people accountable to outcomes, not steps. Right. And so I do think it’s a it’s a different mindset. But I think the leaders that will make it are the ones…

Gerry Crispin, CXR 22:24
I’m totally with you, you know, obviously, as someone who’s described himself always as a lifelong student, rather than anything else. I I’m convinced that that kind of approach and attitude bears more in the long run. However, my experience of leaders out there is that servant leadership is not usually high on their agenda. Right. So you know,

Chris Havrilla 22:48
And that’s certainly the challenge for, you know, for somebody like me and my team is how do we develop the kinds of tools and technology and insights that might help that shift organically? Right, that isn’t some big top down like, Okay, we have to, you know, reinvent everything, but how do you kind of absorb change, see data, see technology have tools that can help people solve for that to start to build different habits? Right. And I do think that’s a little bit of the challenge on a, you know, on companies.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 23:26
I think you’re also telling what I’m hearing also from you is the power of a collective voice, right? It’s not just you, it’s, it’s your willingness to engage other stakeholders in the process. And then collectively, if we, you know, in terms of executing on the outcome for an outcome, we’re more likely to achieve that if we do it on a collective basis. And I’m, I’m convinced that you’re right about that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 23:55
What will another call out for that, too? I agree. Another call out for that, too, is habits or just repetition? Yeah. So you’re not just talking about stepping out of your comfort zone, right? We’re talking about leaders stepping out of their comfort zone, again, and again, and again, until it becomes second nature in how they lead brand.

Chris Havrilla 24:14
Speed scale and intelligence, right? What what are we doing to give them the confidence to do that? Like, again, you know, part of that voice is listening, right? So that’s where technology can come into play. It can take all of this input and data and find patterns and trends and give suggestions and recommendations and guidance that aren’t necessarily the answers either, but give you at least something to think about as you try to make decisions.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 24:40
It’s also the specifics of very often, many of the recruiters in a team are often isolated from one another working on their own wrecks or whatever it might be, especially at the lower levels. And what you’re saying tells me that we really need to spend more time with them working collectively on other kinds of issues. is potentially peer related issues that that contribute to the work when they are alone doing stuff. But but especially at this point where we’ve lost a number of folks, and there is a little bit of survivor’s guilt among those recruiters who are level, but I mean, we need to make sure they have the opportunity to talk to one another, to engage one another, and move on

Chris Havrilla 25:24
And stay focused on on those outcomes, right, that we have to help solve. You know, I get the whole notion of survivor’s guilt, right, but right now, we have big problems to solve. And I think even people that have had to leave, you know, that’s the thing they need to start focusing on, on on what’s next, how can I help somebody else, you know, how

Gerry Crispin, CXR 25:52
We’re moving from networking to real community as as in a collective way, which I love.

Chris Havrilla 25:59
Really?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 26:01
Well, but I think we’re, I mean, we know what the next round of the questions are gonna be, or at least part of those questions gonna be.

There’s an excess capacity models again, ya know, that, like, we’re already seen leaders talking about moving either more into RPOs or more, we got a current survey, right now, where leaders and getting those results in over the last week or so we’re talking about when, when this is done, and we get back to whatever our new business, as usual is supposed to be. We’re thinking of having more control, back recruiters versus full time recruiter, or we’re actually gonna push some work out to rpm, so that we have the ability to flex again, when we have that big planning or market crashes, or whatever. So I think that’s a big piece of it.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 26:44
Do you think contract recruiters are going to increase in the sense of of hiring when when we have the opportunity we can hire back? Instead of hiring back full time, we’ll hire back more a higher percentage of contract.

Chris Havrilla 27:01
I think that’s an I think that’s a distinct possibility. Right? I do I think no matter what, the ability to flex on from an organizational side, but But absolutely, from from, you know, as, as a person doing it, or leaving it side, we have to look at it that way. Right? And we have to get down to, you know, again, what are the problems are we going to solve? Do I need to do it on full time basis? Do I need to go to RPO? Right, I think the people that can leverage technology and data best and stay focused on the outcomes, you know, then we’re just talking about structures at that question.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 27:39
Miranda is saying, Yes. I can’t imagine why.

Chris Havrilla 27:43
But I can’t imagine I can’t imagine why. But I do think that that’s I think, look, frankly, we have to look at that no matter what business function, what we’re doing is that we have to get down to a place where it’s not always going to be jobs and roles constantly, we have to look at the work that needs to be done. And we have to look at the skills and capabilities to do that. And it’s always going to be a constant, you know, you know, like maybe an architecture type of role, right? Where you’re trying to figure out how do I access the talent I need, that talent could be machines, machines are a part of our workforce. Now, they have skills and capabilities that are different from humans, right? We have to look at it from different worker types. And we have to do the best that we can to kind of provide that balance of cost, meaning and value to get the work done with the skills and capabilities to do that.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 28:39
I do think you make a great point, Chris, but I don’t think we get to that, until a new wave of this, I think this technology piece really starts to get like get a foothold within recruiting. Because otherwise, we don’t change. Yes, we don’t change

Chris Havrilla 28:56
Absolutely. Everybody has to start thinking like this, like, none of us have the luxury I think of self identifying and just a role. Like I can’t be just a recruiter, like how are our key if it’s just a software engineer to like, what are my skills and capabilities? And how can they be applied? Like that’s a different mindset for even workers. But I do think the tech is coming in and the data is coming in that can help everybody virtually, whether you’re in in in some type of a human resources role, or some type of a, you know, manager leader role or just a worker role, like getting down to that level of data. Because we’ve been making jobs and we’re making decisions, whether it’s for ourselves as an organization on jobs and roles forever and ever. And and it’s not serving us in a world that’s moving so quickly anymore. So I think you’re exactly right. We just have to get down to that data level and thinking like that, but you know, the the data, the tech is there to start giving us insights to do so.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 29:58
So it’s not only that we access time On but the talent that we have must access must, in a transparent way be able to access the data that can best inform them about the decisions they need to make.

Chris Havrilla 30:11
That’s one step further. Like, I think as a worker, we’re accessing experiences and skills and capabilities, right. And when we start thinking that way we release ourselves from I can only do this job, right. And I do think as, as these generations are coming forward and becoming a larger and larger part of the workforce, it’s a little more natural for them. Because they’re kind of like, I’m over here, I’m over here, I’m doing this, I’m doing this in there, and they’re acquiring and accessing experiences that do that, too. So I do think, you know, I think the shifts are happening, you know, even in the work force, too. And, and we’re watching the data, and we’re seeing all this, you know, bizarre kind of changes, but But really, if you kind of break it down, that’s what they’re doing. They’re accessing experiences, and finding their own journey and agency to apply it. Right?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 31:06
It’s different. I can’t, I can’t put it in an overlay, because it’s super long. But let me read it to you. So Miranda again, and we love you, Miranda, creating efficiencies and seeing trends that may be missed without analyzing data. But leveraging data and tech to the point of foregoing, the human experience does not work in the long run.

Chris Havrilla 31:25
Well, that’s, that’s interesting. But I think the key and what and what Miranda is saying is, is efficiencies, right? I mean, that that’s what we’re still trying to do kind of incremental change, and none of this that we’re talking about is incremental change. So I do think you have to analyze the data, I do think you have to look at the patterns and trends. But remember, if you if you’re not staying focused on outcomes, and kind of asking the right questions to do that, which is part of that analyzing data. And because they did tell us a lot of different stories, but it doesn’t tell you why. So you kind of got to look at it that way. But if we’re trying to solve for stuff we haven’t solved for before incremental change in efficiencies and getting rid of waste, and that’s just not going to work. What we’re talking about is thinking in completely different ways. And that’s like, that’s like the that’s, that’s actual innovation, right? Using the innovation word, but, but I would, you know, I wouldn’t disagree with what Brian is saying, but we’re not.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:25
I’m hearing right. Focus on learning.

Chris Havrilla 32:30
Always be learning?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:33
Yep. Hey, what would the ABL always be learning? And then we’ve got community, right for benefit, right? Big piece there.

Chris Havrilla 32:44
Community collaboration. Yeah, probably. Community, right. But like when we say community, that’s what we’re trying to do is the commitment and collaboration to outcomes

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:53
and leveraging change

Chris Havrilla 32:55
on outcomes,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 32:56
and then leveraging that change, because it’s coming. We just don’t often in a recruiting space, I don’t think we don’t often take those things and really implement them to our own advantage.

Chris Havrilla 33:06
Absolutely. And so I think the easiest way I’ve just used told people to think about it is like, again, not input process output. It’s like, questions, outcomes, and in that middle is flow. It’s not process anymore, is what what actions do we take? What decisions are we making that get us from those questions to those outcomes? And I think as long as you kind of take that approach, I think it’s the safer bet these days.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:31
Chris, let me ask you, if you were going to write a book today, on this topic, right, what we’re talking about, what would the title of the book be?

Chris Havrilla 33:40
Oh my god, what would the title be? Absorption?

Chris Hoyt, CXR 33:46
Absorption?

Chris Havrilla 33:47
Yeah, How do we how do we kind of take all of the you know, the change that we have that’s coming at us left and right, good or bad? Doesn’t matter? And how do we harness it? And and bring it to our advantage? And how do we do it quickly? At scale,

Chris Hoyt, CXR 34:05
Okay. And you can’t say you can’t say us we’re banding that response to the next question, but who gets the first sign copy?

Chris Havrilla 34:14
Oh, first person that asks

Chris Hoyt, CXR 34:21
You read it now if you’re in live chat, you better do it now.

Chris Havrilla 34:24
Get it out there.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 34:28
I love that. Chris we are super grateful for your time today. Thanks for joining us for a quick chat. Just just we know you’re so busy and we’re glad you’re here.

Chris Havrilla 34:35
I’m always happy for this. Love it.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 34:37
Great. I’m gonna put you in the greenroom. Don’t go anywhere yet. So hang out. There we go. All right. And really quickly here. I know we want to talk about this a little bit. I’m going to share the screen up here. It is the last day for a couple of things. In case you have missed it. Let me see if I can pop that up there. There we go. The CXR Foundation does an annual scholarship There is the link right there. So cxr.foundation/scholarship, we try to keep it simple. It is the last day, it’s a $10,000 scholarship. So if you are interested or you have someone in the organization or someone on your team or someone in your family, who could benefit from that, we’d encourage you to head out to that link, share that link, we did encourage you to head out there go through the application process and check it out as the last day to do it. We have hundreds of people who have filled those out, we will whittle it down to 12, we will do an interview process. It’s a whole thing. It’s our third year to do it. And we’re super proud and super excited to that work that goes on out of the six our foundation. That’s our nonprofit, I also want to share with you again, I know I mentioned it earlier, plug plug plug CXR.works/learning. And Gerry, I’m gonna let you talk a little bit about the foundations of candidate experience. I’m put you on the spot for that class. It’s the last day for anybody to enroll, it is open to anybody who would like to do that today through the end of the day. So do you want to you want to share a little bit about that with folks?

Gerry Crispin, CXR 36:00
Yeah, I think the bottom line is there’s there’s basically four of us that took pieces of what we consider the baseline practices. So almost seatbelt issues, you know that, that, that if you’re not doing these, it doesn’t matter what fancy stuff you’re doing. You need, you need to be doing some baseline work in terms of establishing a foundation for how you treat candidates. And I would question if you’re not doing those baseline pieces, you’re not even recruiting because that’s one key stakeholder whose needs are not being met. And I’m convinced that the quality of long term, the quality of our recruiting process as a profession means that we’re meeting some at least minimum needs of all of the stakeholders. And obviously, the candidate is a critical one who doesn’t necessarily have a champion. So I, we enjoy doing it. It comes from, you know, obviously, the experience and the data over 12 years now from the Talent Board. And there’s a great book that Kevin has written and he’s doing more advanced workshops as well. So we are promoting those kinds of things, but we thought, a masterclass basically covering some of those basics is going to be important for the future.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 37:24
Wonderful. Well, I’d encourage anybody check it out. Anybody in the space, you’re nuts if you don’t, it’s free to enroll. Today’s last day, so get in there. Also, lastly, I just want to remind some folks, we have another podcast coming you get a bonus. We got a podcast coming up Friday with Kyle Lagunas over at Aptitude Research. So watch for the announcement that’ll go out here shortly after this livestream is over. And you can join us live just as you did here. Facebook, Twitter. What is it LinkedIn, YouTube, all the tubes, we’re pushing it out to all the tubes. So you can join us there. Gerry, anything you want to say to everybody before we say goodnight Gracie.

Gerry Crispin, CXR 37:58
Goodnight, Gracie.

Chris Hoyt, CXR 38:01
There are we go. That’s it. Thanks, everybody.

CXR Announcer 38:06
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