S4 E38 | CXR 25 – Then and Now with Gerry and Cathy Henesey

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Gerry Crispin 0:19
Well, a pleasant good day. This is Gerry Crispin. I’m here with Cathy Hennessy. And we’re talking about the old days the start of career crossroads. And obviously, it’s our 25th year and so this is basically what it’s about. And Cathy, you and I go back, literally to the beginning,

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 0:40

Gerry Crispin 0:41
Even before CareerXroads I came across you, I think was Computer World you were teaching people how to think about using a computer to actually recruit people. Is that right? Is that a reasonable,

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 0:58
Yeah. Yes, and just how to do a more in depth interview. So that you really are performing a service for your hiring managers right? And how to really do a deep dive into interviewing and, and teaching them.

Gerry Crispin 1:12
Were you working as a consultant at the time

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 1:14
I was in I was an IT recruitment, agency recruitment, consulting, you know, working for a big shop. Placing consultants.

Gerry Crispin 1:23
Yeah, I just remember I started writing for a variety of different publications and and I was just about to write CareerXroads and the first edition kind of thing and doing some research and that’s when I came across you actually doing that and I think I went to a conference and sat in and holy cow, I gotta, I gotta stop teaching people how to use the computer to recruit because it’s starting to get a little nuanced and involved and and we need more. More folks, you know, another person who did that was Glenn Guttmacher.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 1:58
Yes, yeah.

Gerry Crispin 1:59
He was doing an Out of Boston. So you’ve been a longtime friend of CareerXroads. How would you describe our community?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 2:06
It’s, you know, it’s such a, it’s such an engaging and educational community, right. I think we have such a passion for wanting to share what we learned, so that we can really all become better, right? It’s about elevating the profession. And I think that’s what the community is really passionate about doing is what would you learn here? How can we all get better? Because I just, it’s just constantly bouncing off ideas, so that we’re all better.

Gerry Crispin 2:33
Yeah. And, and I do think as you’ve not only grown in leadership positions, but changed in leadership positions over the last 25 years. I also note that you in various places have given back so you, you show up at a variety of times. And now you’ve gotten involved in ATAP the Association of Talent Acquisition Professionals as well. So that’s kind of cool, and it’s it really is, I think, an opportunity with courses Have a career if you want to be proud of the fact that you’ve spent your life in recruiting that you do reach out and find ways to give back and I know that you have done that. When was your first CareerXroads meeting?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 3:15
Gosh, wow. So like under the colloquium?

Gerry Crispin 3:19

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 3:20
I would guess, probably 10 years ago.

Gerry Crispin 3:26
Yeah. Yeah.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 3:28
Really? I said, I think I’m trying to think I must have at all could have been I went…

Gerry Crispin 3:34
Yeah, you weren’t with a company is all of that time that really were in a position to join the

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 3:41
No because I think I may have came as a guest why, you know, initially or a topic was particularly interesting and I think I was, you know, either paid to come to want I don’t think I was a member. You had a different structure, but

Gerry Crispin 3:54
Okay, what do you do anything you remember about those early early days?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 3:59
No. I just remember being in awe of the talent that was out there. Right. And particularly because I, you know, just was in my bubble of IT recruiting for so long. And then I moved to manufacturing. And when I started getting exposed to people outside, and corporate TA functions, and just in awe of the the volume and hires and that this is all these positions out there exist, but you talk to those people and they didn’t enter that career. That was not the plan, right? Whether it’s HR or some other way they stumbled into TA, and you know, and so that has just been fascinating to watch over time. You know, that people have stayed in and made a career like myself, and then now obviously, we really want it to become, you know, a true profession that people aspire to be into from the beginning.

Gerry Crispin 5:00
Think that’s cool. What What is there anything that you think having been in, in this field for for the bulk of your career? Is there anything that you think you see as a significant change?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 5:14
I think the biggest change and I think we’ve seen this in HR, too, but the biggest change for me in the profession is really, truly being at a seat at the table and being part of a strategic planning and the workforce planning at the beginning, and really bringing in you know, how difficult is it to fill a position and as if we’re going to go down this business line, let’s think about recruiting. And what are we talking about? And so I’m often brought into, okay, how difficult is this city, right, do an assessment of this city, if we want to purchase something, you know, whether it’s a hospital or medical clinic or whatever, what’s the difficulty in that? You know, what are we gonna face? So to me just being involved from that early stage stage in strategic planning has been the biggest difference. It’s, you know, come from fullfilment to truly workforce planning and recruitment.

Gerry Crispin 6:09
Cool. What do you What advice would you have for a young person today who is mastering, if you will, that the work in the trench of being a recruiter? Sure. But now beginning to see that there’s there’s a much broader way of thinking about looking at and potentially building kind of strategic capabilities overall for recruiting what what, what do they need to do? Is it education? Is it going back to school? Is it or is it watching things? I mean, what can you do?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 6:45
That’s funny, you recommended a book to me maybe about a month ago, the Evidence Based Recruiting? Yeah, and I just finished it and a lot of the things I believe, obviously I already believed him, but it really reinforced why we have to be evidence Because that keeps us at the table of metrics. And so if I can instill anything in the beginning is really get somebody to understand that those metrics work, you know, it is a formula, it is a volume game, and to learn how to continually assess, you know, what you implement, is it working or not, and using numbers to keep track of that, to make sure that you’re really improving what you’re saying you’re improved, right? We don’t have credibility if we can’t prove what we’re doing. And I think that’s like any organization, but in HR, that has not always been the norm. You know, we may implement, you know, some evaluation system, and it’s not really evaluated. And so I think it’s TA, you know, at least in the organizations I’ve been in have brought that data metrics piece to the game. Here’s how we do an ROI for that decision. And so that is really elevated other departments to say we got to figure this out and make a case for that, because he’s the one that’s getting the money. You know, because I can justify that through through numbers.

Gerry Crispin 8:08
I think that’s that’s interesting point of view. And as you were, you were talking about that it reminds me that if we have a platform that focuses in on measuring and the ability to set up the the approach so that we can ask ourselves before we actually do something, how are we going to know if it’s successful,

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 8:29

Gerry Crispin 8:30
We can begin to do a better job in terms of equity to make sure that at the end of the day, what we’ve set in place, the prop, the policies, the procedures, the systems, etc. In fact, create a fair platform for candidates who are in diverse to be able to come and feel like they’ve got an opportunity to compete for the job. End of the day, we can see the kind of inclusion that that our companies are engaged in?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 9:03
Yeah, I had a boss that you know that I’ve essentially brought in outside agency classes in house to a TA team they didn’t have before. And it’s constant question to me was, what does success look like? What does success look like whatever you want to implement? That was the immediate question I got from him. And I had to be able to deliver on what success looks like before and how are you going to measure it? And what is it going to look like? And what do you hope will happen? You know, and that just really switched for me and starting from the beginning, you know, we all do return on investment, but it’s really taking it to a deeper level and understanding that.

Gerry Crispin 9:45
I think that’s one of the challenges that we’re in right now is what does good or what does success look like when we come out of the pandemic here, right and some of these other issues that are going on so that we can so that we can be pretty clear. about whether or not we can reach that. Plus, so, do you have any favorite memories from a CareerXroads?

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 10:09
I remember the most on the books if we really want to get really high. Yeah. Because, you know, that book was those books that you guys produce the Bibles of all the internet, you know, in all the websites and I would get through those books, I kept cool library forever, and I wish I would have kept them but I didn’t. But just, you know, all the websites that were out there and how they helped recruiting and you know, that just that just really, you know, was just so much fun, honestly, for me,

Gerry Crispin 10:40
I’m gonna have to see if I have enough side pieces left to send you a set or something.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 10:48
I know you gave away one at a meeting and I didn’t I didn’t search hard enough. They’re probably out there. But I do remember that. That really was the start of the internet recruitment. You know, to me, that book was the Bible, you know, and we lived by the updates and all that

Gerry Crispin 11:07
We sold a lot of those suckers, I will say over the years. So there was there were eight books, and there was actually a woman. And outside of Boston, I’m trying to think of the engine, an engineering school small engineering school. She was the head of the library. When I met her in the early 90s. I think it was about 92 or 93. She wrote a book that preceded CareerXroads

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 11:35
Oh really,

Gerry Crispin 11:37
On job, you know, job postings on the internet, as well as what were they called? AOL bulletin boards of some right

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 11:47

Gerry Crispin 11:48
And she was doing that and about 9394. She did, but she wrote it for the the Library Association. So it’s published by the Library Association and ended up in all the libraries. But if you weren’t using a library, people didn’t see it.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 12:09
Using the computer, right, you don’t need to go to the library if you have a computer.

Gerry Crispin 12:14
I gotta tell ya, I will say that you know that that provokes a memory though because we were doing training like you, but but not so much the IT side of it. We were we were doing it for corny a corn Corning known according Cornell’s community group or college, and we were doing it in New York City and we had because they had a deal with 20 computers all in one place. And at the end of the day, we had to spend the first hour teaching people how to turn on the computer.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 12:54

Gerry Crispin 12:54
And so anyhow, last last question, then you got let’s make a prediction. What do you think? I think in in five to 10 years will be the biggest change that we would see in recruiting.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 13:07
You know, I really am trying to eliminate the application process in some shape or form computerized in that whether I would love to see, you know, some profile that you belong to, that you submit your profile to and then we extracted as a company that keeps track of hires and everybody’s movement. And then we just extract go in and do a search and extract the people that we need, you know, and it’s really not a back and forth crazy application attraction process.

Gerry Crispin 13:40
I think you’re I think you’re gonna wait to blockchain exists. And

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 13:45
Hopes and dreams, you know,

Gerry Crispin 13:47
And employees and candidates can basically say, it’s on or it’s off, it’s viable, or it’s not available.

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 13:54
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Something along those lines. There’s got to be a better way right?

Gerry Crispin 14:00
Well thank you for taking a couple minutes just to reminisce on our 25 years and always been a pleasure and I’m just happy that you’re still in you know still around and I still get to see every so often

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 14:15
Thank you I feel like I’m just in the beginning of ta you know we there’s so much more to do and just like we just asked just you know a year we still got so much some word somewhere to go

Gerry Crispin 14:27

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 14:27
Thank you so much

Gerry Crispin 14:28
Well thank you take care now

Cathy Hennessy, AdventHealth 14:30
Good to talk to you

Gerry Crispin 14:31

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